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Is It Worth Buying A Detech 13" Ultimate For The Simplex -


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I've had the Simplex for a while now, I've never really found a place for it, while other entry level detectors I enjoy using like my Garrett Ace detectors and of course the brilliant Vanquish the Simplex sits in the reject pile with my Go-Find 40. 

I'm perplexed why people say it's good, often they say it's competitive with high end detectors, I just can't understand this in my hunting environment, to me the Simplex is the definition of apocryphal.  Perhaps mine is a lemon, I don't know but I was taken in by the Whites TRX and learnt my lesson the hard way, so once bitten, twice shy.  I'm certainly not going to buy another Simplex to find out.  Yes it may separate well for an entry level and be competitive with old First Texas machines but that was a decade ago they hit the market.

I just want to make my Simplex work, people say it's deep, sure it's deep enough, if you like digging every target that ID's as iron, as that's my problem, every deep coin may as well be an iron target.  My Ace 300i will ID targets with relative accuracy that this "legendary" Simplex will tell me is a dirty great big nail.  I'm not going to say the Simplex is rubbish, as it may be that I am the unlikely recipient of a faulty one seeing their quality is so great, or even a faulty coil but how would I know, by replacing it to see? Not happening.

A while ago I tested my machines against each other on some targets, the results are available here

The Simplex and Go-Find were the bottom of the pack, and the Simplex has a massive coil size advantage over the Go-Find.  This is just finding easy to find coins in very mild soils.  To me the Simplex was a massive fail due to its terrible ID accuracy, sure it hits the deep targets but calls them iron.

An example of my disappointment from the previous thread....

Simplex

Other detectors

I even did a test with small coils, and many detectors with a small coil like a 6" provided better ID accuracy than the Simplex with 11" coil.

So, in trying to redeem my Simplex I'm considering buying my favourite larger size VLF coil the Detech Ultimate 13" for it, would I be wasting my money putting lipstick on a pig?

I stumbled across this video 6 months ago, and it put me off wasting my money, I'm just confused why so many people like the Simplex when for me it's rotten.  Is it the case I have a faulty detector or coil? If so I'd be extremely happy, I don't want the Simplex to be as bad as it is, I'd be glad if mine is faulty.

In all honestly my Simplex experience is why I don't already own a Legend even though I really would like to, I just struggle to believe the positivity as I saw the same with the Simplex.  Sometimes people believe what they can afford is as good as the more expensive option, even if it's not, no disrespect but I've seen it enough to know it's true.  This Simplex thing is quite the disappointment as I had such high hopes for it going by the high positivity towards it from some users. 

I really hope mine is faulty.

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First of all, buying a coil that costs nearly as much as the Simplex itself is just throwing good money after bad, to be brutally honest.  So don't let your affinity for accessory coils warp your decision making (not a dig at you, as I have a weakness for them too 😉).   As good as the Ultimate coil series is, it will likely not improve anything you are complaining about, such as target ID, because that's primarily limited by the nature of it being a single frequency (SF) detector vs. Legend being Simultaneous Multifrequency (SMF).  Simply making Simplex a multiple/variable SF would significantly increase its utility at very little increased cost but that would gore Nokta's other mid range offerings such as Impact and Anfibio but that's a discussion for a different thread.

Simon, you say you struggle to consider the Legend based on some of the issues you encountered with Simplex.  But as far as I'm concerned, the only DNA they share is the Nokta Brand and similarities in form factor.  Setting SMF aside for a moment, even the Legend navigation, button layout, and UI is improved vastly over Simplex to be more accessible to making changes quickly on the fly while in the field and I think it is actually set up in a more intuitive fashion for the detecting newbie/veteran than Simplex.  Legend addresses the issues you have with the Simplex by the very nature of it being SMF.   SMF vastly improves the target ID stability issue at depth and SMF creates a true salt beach machine for Nokta.  The various SMF profiles and variable single frequency features make it a truly versatile multi-situational machine at a cost delta that would likely be eclipsed by your Simplex accessory coil purchase (and appears to be a much better value than the Equinox 800).  My advice is to forgo the Ultimate coil purchase for Simplex.  Sell, trade, or donate Simplex to someone who is budding to get into the hobby and get yourself a Legend. 

Simplex+Ultimate vs. Legend US cost analysis:

Simplex w/ Green Wireless Phones: $340 + Ultimate Coil: $250 = $590 invested (I don't consider you to have two usable coils if you are getting the Ultimate coil just to get the Legend to operate the way you want it to FWIW).

Legend Base Pack: $635*. 

Conclusion: Cut Simplex loose and invest in the Impact instead if you want a Nokta in your lineup.  Why bother if you already own Equinox?  It's a great value backup (or even primary to Equinox) has much better ergonomics and UI it's really a pleasure to swing vs. Equinox, has similar performance, and in some unique cases may actually outperform the Nox.  In this way you are getting something that might actually cover a performance/capability gap in your arsenal rather than trying to get Simplex to just keep up with what your other detectors already do.

(*Note: Not seeing the value in the Legend $765 Pro pack as the extended battery pack is of limited value since it will just add weight and preclude use of hard wired headphones in water hunting situations, besides, the Legend built-in battery appears to have plenty of capacity.   Personally, not a fan of the 6" round coil form factor - so getting a great bundle savings on two accessories I'll likely never put into useful service is not really saving anything.  I would rather save the wasted (IMO) Pro Pack $ and get Nokta's forthcoming 5x9.5 DD for Legend which should cost about $130 ballpark based on Nokta's accessory coil cost benchmarks (the Legend 6" round is $120).  That's just me, of course.  Others obviously may find utility in the Pro Pack accessories that I don't as it is a popular option).

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5 hours ago, phrunt said:

Sometimes people believe what they can afford is as good as the more expensive option, even if it's not, no disrespect but I've seen it enough to know it's true.  This Simplex thing is quite the disappointment as I had such high hopes for it going by the high positivity towards it from some users.

I've come to the seemingly obvious conclusion that every detector (and/or coil) review has at least some amount of subjectivity.  It's a difficult if not impossible task and even objective standardized tests, when done properly, only scratch the surface of the 'experience' an individual detectorist will harbor in the field.  Heck, even the same detectorist with the same detector+coil in the same location has different experiences, conclusions, and feelings on different occasions.

Ever seen wine tastings?  Good ones hide the label, etc., otherwise 'reviewers' tend to base their conclusions on things like price and producer reputation.  And most of those delusional reviewers will argue until blue in the face that they don't.

I wish each of us had the opportunity to 'test drive' a detector for at least a couple day hunts before purchase.  That wouldn't be perfect but it would be so much better than relying on reviews from people we don't even know.  Obviously there are exceptions (including some here) -- reviewers who are much more objective than average, and who admit what they experience may not match, in a predictive way, what other individuals would with that particular detector+coil and site, let alone widely varying conditions.

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I think highly of the Simplex, but only as a value for the dollar type of deal. I would never compare it to machines like Equinox, Deus, or CTX. It is as you say more properly compared with other single frequency machines. What I like about it is that it is waterproof, compact, and stout, so I can take it to freshwater spots with rough terrain (underwater rocks, boulders and such) and not worry about it. It’s a dig it all machine past a certain depth, you’re correct, so I wouldn’t ever use it to cherry pick, unless for shallow targets. It is deep for its price point, but the target ID fades pretty fast, and I don’t always want to dig everything, particularly deep signals and waste my time. So I save it for places where digging everything is appropriate, like swimming holes where I’m likely to find gold jewelry. 

That being said, it is a machine capable of pulling what many would consider “top pocket finds.” I can’t deny it that. A properly running unit in the hands of a properly acquainted user should be able to pull anything from old silver to ancient Roman coinage. It did ID a deep(ish) mercury dime as a mid conductor on my end for example, but it hit it nonetheless. Same with a Barber Quarter and other deep silver. They tend to ID as mid to low conductors at the depths I found them, but Simplex was capable of reaching them. This was the same kind of experience I had with the F75, so I didn’t think much of it other than that I have a waterproof version for much less money. 
 

Since my purchase though, I’ve chosen to leave it as it is. My investments have gone elsewhere. Backup and alternative pinpointers, diggers, coils for other machines, and XP Deus 2. Additional coils for Simplex other than the SP24 haven’t been on my radar for long. I probably wouldn’t even buy the SP24 unless it was used and highly discounted. 

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I guess I was oversold, and under delivered.   I was chasing depth, and Noktas marketing claims the Simplex is deep and I guess in a way it is, if you don't mind digging everything as the ID's are all over the place mostly down towards iron.

From the website

simplex.jpg.f8cd34702217f6a899e1e0891b74657a.jpg

In the videos I compare it to the Ace 300i and Ace 350, both correctly ID both targets with remarkably good stability for their price range, the Simplex does not, I was putting it down to the Ace detectors having a 13" Nel Tornado, where the Simplex has the 11" stock coil.  Hoping a Detech 13" Ultimate would fix it up.  I guess more than anything I want to know if my Simplex is faulty, or if this is normal for it.  The closest detector I own to its poor performance with Target ID is the Teknetics T2, although its still better than the Simplex. The Gold Bug Pro blows it away, and the Vanquish sits right at the top with the best so it's compared to plenty of lower priced detectors and at depth on coins it's left behind even the cheapest of them so I was wondering seeing these claims of extreme depth that perhaps I have a faulty coil, or even detector. 

I found with my Gold Bug Pro the Detech Ultimate improved its target ID stability, it was never terrible in the first place, but it did improve with the Ultimate, as did the ID stability of the Ace series when I put the Tornado on, this could be because the coils are bigger of course but so would the Ultimate 13 be for my Simplex.

I've learnt over the years to take marketing as what it is, trying to sell you stuff and salesmen are the butt of many a joke when it comes to honesty but Detech make some claims relating to this on the Ultimate coil advertising.

1320165531_detechmarketing.jpg.2bbb050aed8e55d5fabdf81f03fb302e.jpg

All of those things the Simplex could use improvement on so the Ultimate and Simplex seemed a good match, until I saw that guys video I posted above using the Ultimate on it, no real benefit to it in that video I didn't think but I have such benign soils that giving good Target ID seems to be a simple task for virtually every detector, the Ace 300i easily outperforms the Simplex for deep target ID stability.  6" seems to be even in my mild soils the depth limit of the Simplex and target ID, beyond that you're digging it all.

If indeed my Simplex is fine and this is normal it's really a case of putting lipstick on a pig, a feature packed solid appealing looking detector with poor performance on deeper targets, the majority of the good targets I am chasing and their marketing lead me to believe its a good deep detector.  I fell for their marketing, what is the point being able to hit on targets at depth when you tell the operator a silver coin is iron or bounce around on it with low target ID's like its a piece of random junk.

Calabash who's made it his mission in life at the moment to promote the Deus 2 and belittle the Legend even gave the Simplex a good review, and ran it around his little test garden saying how well it was doing, although upon watching it again I notice he doesn't show the screen to see the ID's and how its actually performing so you're taking his word for it.

The appeal of the Legend to me was the fact it was going to likely have aftermarket coils, so I'd be able to throw my favourite coils onto it like this Detech Ultimate 13" and the Nel Snake for prospecting, I'd be happy then as now I use far superior detectors like the Nox than the ones I own those aftermarket coils for as they're not made for any of the good detectors, that's my biggest problem, the best detectors don't have aftermarket coil support so I compromise buying those coils I like for far lesser detectors as that's what I have to do, I have no choice.  I just bought the Detech Arrow coil for my AT Gold, I wish I was able to buy it for my Equinox, now I've got to dust off a detector I never use to be able to use the Arrow. I blame the manufacturers of the detectors for this, not the coil makers, they're putting out great products the manufacturers of the detectors don't want us to use.  Perhaps they're embarrassed they don't make coils as good as the aftermarket guys do.

Now it's looking more and more like the aftermarket may not make coils for the Legend, Nel is currently no longer making coils and they announced Simplex coils years ago, they never happened, Dilek said they needed to come to a mutually beneficial agreement for Nokta to sell them the parts they need to make them, this never happened.  So let's rule out Nel coils for the Legend, then there is Detech who initially had the Simplex on the list of Detectors for the Arrow coil, now the coils been out for some time and still, no Simplex coil... again this is likely coming to an agreement with Nokta over the required parts to make coils for it causing the hindrance, so will they bother with the Legend? Nobody knows, a gamble.  It maybe stuck with the genuine Nokta coils and that's it, making it for me worse than the Nox with the current offerings, at least it has the Coiltek options as well and the 10x5" is pretty good.

I guess my whole reason for wanting to buy the Ultimate for the Simplex was to see if it will perform at least on par with an Ace 300i with target ID on medium to deep coins when it has a better coil, with the chance my Simplex coil maybe faulty (assuming its not the detector).  I just expected it to be far better than it is, even for the price as everything else is.

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This was a decent test. I like his test garden. He’s done many machines. My soil seems about on par with his. 

 

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His testing just demonstrates to me why I can't watch videos like this and buy detectors, he rates it a 57 out of 66 using his own made up points scale where he gives points for passing certain tests he's got going.  He rates the F19 (GBP) at 44, and At Pro at 38 and the Ace 350 at 33, all detectors that for my purposes are much better than the Simplex.  He rates the F75 at 57, much higher than the previous detectors I mentioned and assuming the F75 performs similar to the T2 which it should do then for me, again all the other detectors above like the Ace 350 and F19 (GBP) are superior to the T2 for depth with ID stability.  This is another of those videos where you're squinting and doing a neck dance trying to get your head to an angle where you can see his Target ID numbers with next to no luck, he's got the detector at an angle where you can't see the screen, the usual thing people seem to do in videos, I don't get it, it's so easy to make the target ID's visible, in my videos I showed above you can easily see the ID's on every detector, it's really not hard to do but people purposefully I think don't do it.

Interesting he rates the Simplex at a score of 57, and the F75 also at 57, It seems almost everyone thinks the Simplex is so very similar to the F75/T2 range it's uncanny, I do too, the Simplex performance and how it behaves are so close to identical to the T2.  If I didn't know better I'd think it was just a newer model T2 with a new interface and housing.  My T2 performs slightly better than my Simplex but the T2 has a Mars Tiger coil on it, giving it a slight advantage over the stock Simplex coil being a 13x10" coil over the stock 11" on the Simplex.  The Tiger also is very good at limiting EMI on the T2, where as the Simplex is quite troubled by EMI.

If I wrote the same list based on what I use detectors for my figures on the detectors I've compared would be very different to his figures, meaning if I followed his guide to buying a detector I'd end up with a Simplex or F75 being near the top of the list for his best detectors, the only detectors he scores better at the Tesoro Tejon and Nokta Impact which both equally score a 58, his highest scoring detectors that he has tested.

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GB Amateur is right, if only we could test drive detectors, I would have known in twenty minutes the Simplex wasn't suitable for me based off the Simplex I currently own, it's so clearly behind the other detectors for what I use them for I wouldn't even need time to work it out, it's blatantly obvious but if I were to read up on forums and watch Youtube videos I'd be told otherwise, that the Simplex is great for what I want to use it for.  This is why I'm so confused.

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As far as single frequency metal detectors go, for my purposes, and where I’ve had the same detectors as him, my findings have been the same. The waterproofing for me is what sets it apart, but as far as it’s base performance there aren’t too many single frequency metal detectors I’d pick over the Simplex. I was hoping seeing the Simplex performing as it does for me would help you determine if it’s your machine etc. But probably our purposes and our conditions are too far apart. I didn’t find the Ace or AT series better performers than Simplex here for example. In fact I’d be upset if I were told I had to go back to them. 

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Yea, I think it's the fact I couldn't see his screen so I couldn't really see if my Simplex was worse than his.  Mine sounds off on the deeper targets, it just tells me they're junk or the ID's are all over the place rather than what they should be.   The Ace series in mild soils are actually really good detectors and can fairly accurately ID targets, apart from in bad iron which I don't have to deal with, in clean soil looking for lost good targets they're very effective and I consider them to be very deep detectors too.  This I guess is why I'm so disappointed with the Simplex, it's an easy task for virtually all other detectors yet the Simplex falls short.  It might be I just need to move on, it's not like I need it and even if it performed better all I'm hoping for it is that it can equal an Ace 300 on medium to deeper coins but then for what purpose? I'd still not use it I guess.

I know a lot of people like the Simplex, so I'm swimming into the current being the odd one out, which is why I was considering another coil for it as I want to like it.

That guys video was a decent watch, his points system and how he grades detectors to suit his needs was rather unique. 

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I agree with Chase in that single frequency vs good quality SMF detectors like the Etrac, CTX, Equinox, Deus 2 and even the Legend, really are a comparison between a detector (single frequency) hitting a deep target and a detector (SMF) not only hitting it but identifying it or at least its conductivity accurately in most cases.

Like you and GB Amateur have noted, basing buying decisions on some YouTube tester’s results and marketing information is very iffy unfortunately due to test garden conditions, tester’s parameters (accurate target ID not usually being one of them) where just hitting a target is good enough and marketing mumbo-jumbo.

All I can say is why would you upgrade a big coil on the Simplex with a slightly bigger one, when the Simplex has already shown itself to be inferior or basically equal to your T2’s and Gold Bugs as far as inaccurate target IDs on deeper targets. My results in my dirt showed the Simplex to be very similar in all but four ways to the T2, F75 and F70 along with the F19. Those four improvements were slightly better target ID on surface to 6” targets, wireless audio, internal rechargeable battery and waterproof. The Simplex was no where near as accurate target ID wise as my Equinox and Vanquish or the Legend I have now. 

For the price, the Simplex is an incredible deal when compared to the price of a new T2, F75 or F19 along with a new Garrett AT Pro, AT Gold or AT Max if all one needs is a single frequency detector and one is willing and able to go beep/dig on deeper targets.

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