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Do Lipo Batteries In Metal Detectors Last Longer If Broken In Slowly?


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Hello everyone,

I just got my first detector with a Lipo battery. It's the Notka/Makro Simplex+. Since I have no knowledge on this technology, I looked into how to care for this battery. So, I looked here and didn't see a topic on break in procedure. I went online and one expert said he studies batteries and races RC.

He claims to extend the life of his batteries and the internal resistance drops once broken in gently. He listed a process in where he gently (low amp) charges then uses a slow discharge then lets it rest for over night. Then slowly charge, then rest then discharge. Then rest. The explanation goes into quite a detail on how low of voltage before stopping the discharge. However, it boils down to discharging to about 10%. Then fully charge. 

  Well, I wanted to post this info here rather than just a link in case his website goes away. So, who on this forum can add to this? I am going to go slow in charging my detector for the first time. I don't see it hurting. Also, news to me is storage should be around 40% for long term. I store long term during the winter months. Below I took only his conversation on the actual process and a couple of comments he made. There is some talk of other things as well and one guy just trying to prove his point. So, this is the meat of the talk. This has helped me I think. Here's the info:

How I Break-In New LiPo Batteries (Lowers Internal Resistance Slightly and Prepares Cells for High Demand so they Last Longer):

Link: https://www.rctech.net/forum/radio-electronics/1074298-how-i-break-lipo-lithium-polymer-batteries.html

 

I prepare new LiPos by running the first 3 cycles slowly on the charger. This allows the electrolyte in the cells to stabilize and get used to both their fully charged and fully discharged states. Every time I do it, I do notice a small drop in Internal Resistance, and my LiPos seem to last for years and years. These days, many people say that breaking in your LiPo is a waste of time, but I can tell you for sure that it certainly makes a difference for me. So with that being said, here is how you do it properly:

For all break in cycles, you will want to BOTH charge and discharge VERY SLOWLY. The MAXIMUM rate of charge or discharge for break-in is 0.5C, I usually run somewhere in-between 0.25C and 0.5C. For Example: Breaking in these new Ovonic 3S 5200mAH LiPos, ALL of the charges and discharges were run at 2.0A, or 0.38C. Yes, it is time consuming, but as I said, it ACTUALLY makes a difference. So, on to the actual process:

STEP ONE: SLOWLY charge to 100% fully charged (4.20V Per Cell for standard LiPos, 4.35V Per Cell for LiHV packs). Unplug the battery when finished. Allow battery to rest and settle for 20-30 mins. Plug the battery back in and run CHARGE CYCLE AGAIN. This additional charge is performed because the battery will lose some voltage while settling, and it needs to be topped off. Once the Battery is topped off, unplug the battery and let it sit fully charged for 4-12 hours. This will allow the electrolyte and internal chemistry to become accustomed to its fully charged state. I usually leave the topped-off batteries overnight and then proceed to the next step first thing after I wake up in the morning.

STEP TWO: SLOWLY Discharge the battery to a voltage of 3.7V Per cell. This very gentle discharge will only drain about 60% of the LiPo's capacity, or "mAH". This is something done deliberately because a fresh LiPo stays healthier if it is "eased" into a full discharge. As with the first step, unplug the battery when finished, settle for 20-30 mins, and then re-run discharge. You will notice that the oppasite has happened versus step one. Now the voltage will have bounced back up. These things happen because just like running the battery in an RC, charging and discharging puts a load on the battery. This means the voltage sags when discharging past what the actual voltage is, just as the voltage spikes when charging. This is why we re-run every single charge or discharge during break-in. We need the voltage to be as close as humanly possible to our actual target. So, after re-running the discharge to 3.7V per cell (11.1V total voltage on 3S pack for example), ensure that cells are balanced and unplug the battery. Again, as with the first step, now its time for the battery to fully settle in this state for 4-12 hours. Then you can proceed to step three.

STEP THREE: SLOWLY charge to 100% again, same very slow rate as step one. Again, unplug and allow 30 mins to settle, re-run charge, then unplug and allow 4-12 hours.

STEP FOUR: Same as step TWO but with ONE VERY IMPORTANT CHANGE: Now your discharge target will be 3.5V Per Cell (10.5V total Voltage on 3S Pack). Again, Unplug, settle for 30 mins, then re-run discharge. Finally, unplug, settle for 4-12 hours.

STEP FIVE: FINAL SLOW FULL CHARGE. Unplug and settle for 30 mins, then re-run charge. Unplug and settle for 4-12 hours.

STEP SIX: FINAL SLOW DISCHARGE. Target will be 3.3 Volts per cell (9.9V total voltage for 3S pack). You do NOT want to discharge your pack ANY LOWER than this, EVER. If you have an intelligent charger that can count mAH pumped in or taken out (like my ProTek Prodigy 625 Duo Touch can), you will notice that your full mAH rating will be drained going from fully charged to 3.3V per cell. The idea that discharging to 3.0V per cell on LiPos is okay for LiPos is actually a common misconception. 3.0V per cell will actually damage the life of the battery, just very slightly and very slowly, so it is considered acceptable. However, if you do your research, you will find that setting your LVC on your ESCs to 3.3V per cell or higher is the ONLY TRUE WAY to keep your LiPos FULLY HEALTHY for years to come. As with all other steps, unplug the battery when its done discharging and allow to settle for 20-30 mins, then re-run the discharge. Now, unplug and allow settling for 4-12 hours.

FINAL STEP (SEVEN): After allowing your battery to FULLY settle at 3.3V per cell, you can return the battery to proper storage voltage (3.80-3.85V per cell) until it is time to stick it into a vehicle. When you are ready to run it in a vehicle, run the first usage charge at the same slow charge rate you used when breaking in, allow to settle for 30 mins, and top-off. Then, when running vehicle, take it a bit easy. You don't have to drive super slowly, but avoid full throttle and wheelies and things that put the battery under immense power draw for just the first run. Ensure your LVC (Low Voltage Cutoff) is set properly and do your best to drive the vehicle until you hit LVC. After this first run, you can now use your LiPo normally, using your choice of charge rate (I always recommend 1.5C or less for battery health longevity), and you can drive as you see fit as well. Monitor battery temps closely until you know how your battery responds to high demand.

I hope this helps some of you guys get a bit more power and life out of your Lithium-Polymer batteries. These batteries aren't cheap, so I find it more than worth the time and effort to break them in, for the healthiest and longest-lasting batteries possible!

One detail I forgot to mention: A good example is the fact that these Ovonic LiPos started with an Internal resistance of 4.4 MiliOhms on their first charge. However, after running my Break-In process, my charger now shows 3.2 MiliOhms average per cell at full charge and after settling for 60 minutes (this is how you properly measure IR, LiPo MUST be fully charged, topped off, and allowed to settle for 60 minutes in a environment with standard room temperature of 70-80°F).

Firstly, leaving a LiPo fully charged for a few hours at a time does no harm to it. Usually, once you leave a LiPo fully charged or discharged for about 48-72 hours, THEN you will begin to see slight degredation in the life of the battery. If you leave it fully charged for weeks or a month (a mistake often made by people new to the hobby) then that might be enough to finally seriously damage or kill the battery. If leaving a LiPo fully charged for just a few hours hurt them, nobody would be buying them.

You can find articles if you do your research that will explain how Lithium battery chemistry benefits from allowing the electrolyte to become accustomed to being fully charged. If you look at HRB USA website, you will find in LiPo battery product descriptions that they even recommend a break-in process for their batteries. The owner of SMC Racing and I have spoken about this over E-Mail before as well. One of my favorite sites for learning about battery technology is "Battery University". A very good read indeed.

For instance, did you know that when LiPos were first invented, Break-Ins were MANDATORY for satisfactory performance? If you didn't do a proper break-in, your battery likely burst or put out very little power. There were several reports of bursting batteries to show that it truly wasn't an option. Now days, its not 100% necessary, but I have been doing RC for 16 years. Yes, Ive tested more than just 2 packs. This is just ONE example.

Ive been breaking in LiPos now for about 8-9 years. In that time I have noticed changes on about all but one pack. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 packs tested. 5 Manufacturers, I run ProTek LiHV packs, Gens Ace Bash packs and Redline LiHV packs, SMC Racing Packs, Fantom Race Packs, and Ovonic Bash packs.

Now as I said, the difference made on expensive race packs like Fantom was minimal. There WAS an observable difference, but was the process woth the time and effort? Eh, debatable. I suppose you could just charge slowly the first couple charges and drive gently the first couple drives if you want an easier way to break in that doesn't seem like a waste of time. I prefer the charger because I can observe and measure the difference from start to finish.

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"I am going to go slow in charging my detector for the first time."

Do you have much control over this ? I assume you're not planning on removing the cell from the detector in order to do this 'pre-use processing' ?

 "Also, storage should be around 40% for long term"

What's not ideal for cell longevity is leaving them charged at the full 4.2 Volts. Even having them at 4.0 volts makes a significantly beneficial difference. You just have to avoid the cell being too flat, as undercharged is also bad for the cell. Once again, you have no direct control over how charged the cell is when it's inside the machine. I'm not familiar with this detector, but some combination of on-screen battery-strength bargraph, and switching it on for a couple of hours to take the peak voltage away, should be adequate for over-winter storage.

Remember the R/C folks hammer the hell out of their batteries, and they also demand the best performance from them. ( I used to race R/C cars - taking hot battery packs out the car and chucking them in a bucket of cold water, then pretty soon after fast-charging them again, is the kind of abuse they got .. ). Us detectorists are not so demanding ... plus there's always the USB port to plug a 'power-bank' etc into, if you start losing performance.

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This idea of 'bedding in' new cells is nothing new. It was widely done in the 1980's with NiCad's. Early methods of creating 'better' battery packs involved grading the cells so that the best ones ( highest capacity, usually ) could be sold at a premium.
Then cell matching evolved from that, so a 6-cell pack made from 6 closely-matched cells would get the best out of them, as they would all dump simultaneously, rather than one weak cell compromising the others.
To do all this testing, it was necessary to charge and discharge the cells several times. This lead to testers performing a couple of slower full charge/discharge cycles first, the idea being that plating the metals on the electrodes was better than the industrial manufacturing processes that create the cell initially. Lower internal resistance ('more punch' ) was the main claimed benefit, as these car packs were drained at average currents of 15 Amps for a 5 minute race. I remember some of the serious racers using these 'Keil Pushed Cells' (attached), which were pre-conditioned, matched, and selected to be above-average ... at a hefty price premium.

KeilCells7472.jpg

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TLDR

Yes the LiPo information posted here is technically correct for ACD optimization of battery life to the micro amp hour for high demand usage such as RC vehicles but IMO folks are seriously overthinking this for detector usage (and I’m an electrical engineer that deals with power delivery systems saying this) based on over 10 years of experience with use of Li Ion and now LiPo batteries for detectors and related accessories.  Especially since you don’t have much control over the NM battery charging parameters for Simplex/Legend (and it is not removable, or user replaceable to enable use of a precision charging station).  There is plenty of daily capacity unless your sun never sets and for the long haul, your battery will still likely outlast your detector lifetime unless you are using it 12 hours a day on a daily basis where you would be subjecting it to daily charge cycles from less than 25% to greater than 75% capacity.  My advice is to trust the NM battery charge controller to do it’s thing to protect the battery during charge by limiting the charge current profile to avoid thermal cycling of the battery.  And then there are some simple  things you can do to preserve battery capacity over the usable life of the battery.  
 

Battery capacity will initially improve during the break in period if you don’t subject it to large/long recharge cycles by not running it much below 40% for the first 5 or so cycles.

Avoid ever running it flat to the point the battery protection circuit shuts down the battery (ostensibly 0%, but the protection circuit keeps from truly reaching minimum capacity).  A few times doing this over its lifetime won’t be noticeably detrimental, but don’t make it a regular occurrence.

NEVER charge the battery if the battery has reached an ambient temp less than 32F/0C.  You will almost assuredly cause some irreversible damage and capacity loss.  This includes using the accessory “spare” outboard battery charging the built-in in cold temps (Note that you can safely operate these batteries at lower temps, you just should not be charging them if the battery has equalized to at or below freezing temps).

Avoid significant thermal cycling due either to charging or large ambient temp swings during discharge.

Observe the manufacturer recommended low and high ambient operating temps for the detector.

Don’t “store” the detector for prolonged periods (several weeks or months) with a fully charged battery.  Store it with the battery at 80% or less.  Don’t need to worry about this for overnight storage or weekly/bi-weekly usage.

GL

 

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Thank you gentleman,

   This helps! Just to make a note about my doing this. Yes, it may seem this is over thinking this or worrying too much about it. However, this is my hobbie. It's actually fun to learn about all the little details for me. And, knowing I'm doing the very best I can is satisfying for me. It takes my mind off of things for a while when I get into the nuts and bolts of this hobby.

   Also, it's nice to know this info. as there's so little about this process. I didnt know about the 40% low discharge on the first 5 cycles. That is good to know.

   You see, this process, once finished will let me feel like I've done something to keep my gear in top shape going forward. Regardless if it is overkill or something, it's just fun for me and I appreciate your sharing your experience and expertise! TG

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I just re read this first post. He mentions to only draw down to 60%. How I missed that I don't know. But, it seems to be the same idea of not discharging very much the first few times. I hope I didnt do much to harm the battery. I suspect I have not and going forward I'll stick to the 40-60% draw down.

  I found a 600ma charger and I'm doing my 1st recharge. Unfortunately, I went to about 20%. It probably won't do much and going forward, It's nice to have a proper method of how to break in this battery. Cheers, TG

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30 minutes ago, Tahoegold said:

Thank you gentleman,

   This helps! Just to make a note about my doing this. Yes, it may seem this is over thinking this or worrying too much about it. However, this is my hobbie. It's actually fun to learn about all the little details for me. And, knowing I'm doing the very best I can is satisfying for me. It takes my mind off of things for a while when I get into the nuts and bolts of this hobby.

   Also, it's nice to know this info. as there's so little about this process. I didnt know about the 40% low discharge on the first 5 cycles. That is good to know.

   You see, this process, once finished will let me feel like I've done something to keep my gear in top shape going forward. Regardless if it is overkill or something, it's just fun for me and I appreciate your sharing your experience and expertise! TG

I completely understand. I get the desire to figure things out and how some of the "maintenance tasks" associated with a hobby can be part of the fun. For example, one reason I enjoy metal detecting is that it gives me an excuse to play with my batteries (which are almost all serial numbered by me so I can keep track of their histories). 

All that being said, it's usually best to follow a manufacturer's guidelines as to how to charge and maintain their batteries. This doesn't mean they're 100% right in 100% of situations. But it's safe to assume that it's a good "general rule of thumb" that balances out various competing interests (long run time, long-term health of the battery, convenience, etc.).

Now, if you learn of something that says a company's recommendations on how to charge or store a battery are wrong (as well as the reason why that company is spreading incorrect information), but all means let us know! But I'm not aware of any of that information currently existing with the major metal detecting companies.

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Ok, so I've simplified this info. Here's the steps without the technical wording:

 

1) Charge the first time with a 1amp charger until full (not the recomended 2amp). Unplug charger, Allow battery to rest and settle for 20-30min. Then charge again to top off. Once 2nd charge is complete, unplug charger and let it rest 4-12hrs. LiPo MUST be fully charged, topped off, and allowed to settle in a environment with standard room temperature of 70-80°F.

2) Turn on detector and maybe plug in head phones or turn volume down to quiet the machine. Discharge to 80%, unplug charger and let battery rest for 20-30min, then resume discharge to 40%. Unplug charger and let battery rest for 4-12hrs.

3) Slowly charge to 100% again,  unplug and allow 30 mins to settle, re-run charge then unplug and allow 4-12 hrs. rest.

4) This time, discharge more than step 2. Discharge to 60%. Unplug, let rest for 30 min, then resume discharge to 40%.

5) Slow charge again until full. Unplug and let rest 30min then charge again to top off. Unplug, let rest 4-12 hrs.

6) Discharge to 40%. Let rest 30 min. Then discharge again, turn on detector, the power meter should have increased a little above where it was when turned off, let it run run until back down to 40%. Unplug and Let rest 4-12 hrs.

7) Slow charge to full, unplug, let rest 30 min, then charge again to top off. Let rest 4-12hrs

😎 After resting for 4-12hrs you can discharge to 40-60% for proper storage. When it's time to use the detector again, use the same slow charging method, allow to settle 30 min, then re-run charge to top off.

Do this process 3-5 times. And after that, you can use the 2amp charger recomended in the Notka/Makro Simplex+ user manual.

 leaving a LiPo fully charged for a few hours at a time does no harm to it. Usually, once you leave a LiPo fully charged or discharged for about 48-72 hours, THEN you will begin to see slight degredation in the life of the battery. If you leave it fully charged for weeks or a month (a mistake often made by people new to the hobby) then that might be enough to finally seriously damage or kill the battery. If leaving a LiPo fully charged for just a few hours won't hurt them.

Finally never charge when the battery has been cooled to 32°F/0°C or heated to temperatures over 95°F/ 35°C

Don’t “store” the detector for prolonged periods (several weeks or months) with a fully charged battery.  Store it with the battery at 80% or less.  Don’t need to worry about this for overnight storage or weekly/bi-weekly usage.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Tahoegold said:

Ok, so I've simplified this info. Here's the steps without the technical wording:

 

1) Charge the first time with a 1amp charger until full (not the recomended 2amp). Unplug charger, Allow battery to rest and settle for 20-30min. Then charge again to top off. Once 2nd charge is complete, unplug charger and let it rest 4-12hrs. LiPo MUST be fully charged, topped off, and allowed to settle in a environment with standard room temperature of 70-80°F.

2) Turn on detector and maybe plug in head phones or turn volume down to quiet the machine. Discharge to 80%, unplug charger and let battery rest for 20-30min, then resume discharge to 40%. Unplug charger and let battery rest for 4-12hrs.

3) Slowly charge to 100% again,  unplug and allow 30 mins to settle, re-run charge then unplug and allow 4-12 hrs. rest.

4) This time, discharge more than step 2. Discharge to 60%. Unplug, let rest for 30 min, then resume discharge to 40%.

5) Slow charge again until full. Unplug and let rest 30min then charge again to top off. Unplug, let rest 4-12 hrs.

6) Discharge to 40%. Let rest 30 min. Then discharge again, turn on detector, the power meter should have increased a little, let it run run until back down to 40%. Unplug and Let rest 4-12 hrs.

7) Slow charge to full, unplug, let rest 30 min, then charge again to top off. Let rest 4-12hrs

😎 After resting for 4-12hrs you can discharge to 40-60% for proper storage. When it's time to use the detector again, use the same slow charging method, allow to settle 30 min, then re-run charge to top off.

Do this process 3-5 times. And after that, you can use the 2amp charger recomended in the Notka/Makro Simplex+ user manual.

 leaving a LiPo fully charged for a few hours at a time does no harm to it. Usually, once you leave a LiPo fully charged or discharged for about 48-72 hours, THEN you will begin to see slight degredation in the life of the battery. If you leave it fully charged for weeks or a month (a mistake often made by people new to the hobby) then that might be enough to finally seriously damage or kill the battery. If leaving a LiPo fully charged for just a few hours won't hurt them.

Finally never charge when the battery has beel cooled to 32°F/0°C or heated to temperatures over 95°F/ 35°C

Don’t “store” the detector for prolonged periods (several weeks or months) with a fully charged battery.  Store it with the battery at 80% or less.  Don’t need to worry about this for overnight storage or weekly/bi-weekly usage.

 

 

In my opinion, most of that is necessary and it might even shorten the overall life of the battery.

I can MAYBE see using the 1amp charger for the first few charges to help with the "break in," but I'd be surprised if that makes a difference. Also, in my experience and from what I've read, the life of a lithium is primarily dependent on the number of charge cycles. This assumes you're not charging or discharging it at extreme temps or at extreme rates (1C or greater).

So it's my thought that all this "unplug and rest...then plug in" will actually hurt the battery more than it will help. I could be wrong, but that's my opinion.

You imply this can be done with the 1amp charger, but are you sure that makes a difference? Most consumer chargers without any adjustability will only give what the device/battery can take. For instance, if you have a 10watt USB charger for phones, but a phone and its battery are designed to be charged at a rate of 500ma, then that USB charger effectively becomes a 2.5watt charger when plugged into that phone.

I don't know how N/M's chargers work, but I imagine they work on a similar principle where the charger only gives the battery what the battery is willing to accept. I guess it's possible the Simplex's battery is designed to accept a charge at a 2amp rate, but I doubt it, as the battery is rated as having a 2,300 mah capacity. This would mean the battery can be fully charged (from empty) is less than 1.5 hours. This is NOT good for the long-term health of a rechargeable lithium battery. 

All of this to say, I don't think switching between a 1amp and 2amp charger will make a difference in the current sent to the Simplex's battery.

So here's what I would do: just follow N/M's recommendations. 

If doing the above is enjoyable for you, knock yourself out! You bought the Simplex to have fun with and if that's fun for you, I'm not one to judge. But if you're doing it ONLY to help your battery last longer, I'd be surprised if you're accomplishing those results.

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The guy I quoted gave results after this process showing it lowered the internal resistance. Also, Lipo battery makers have recommended a break in period for some reason.

After break in I will use a 2amp charger. However, I wonder, you say that because of the battery size, a 2amp should charge ot in 1.5hrs? So, they must have some kind of controller inside limiting the input. I'm also thinking, if RC batteries are Lipo and guys do this for them to reduce resistance, why not this Lipo battery?

   Either way, It seems this process won't do any harm to the battery. And, yes, it's just a little hobby fun too. I can't detect due to weather. I'm stuck at home for a few days and this gives me something to stave off the cabin fever! Thanks again! TG

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