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Do Lipo Batteries In Metal Detectors Last Longer If Broken In Slowly?


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42 minutes ago, Tahoegold said:

After break in I will use a 2amp charger. However, I wonder, you say that because of the battery size, a 2amp should charge ot in 1.5hrs? So, they must have some kind of controller inside limiting the input.

They most certainly do have an on-board controller chip, so let it do the work and just follow the manufacturer’s guidance for the detector and heed the other best practices noted above to keep the battery healthy.  I don’t think you will do harm, but the reason the RC community is so meticulous about this is because minutes and seconds matter when it comes to run time otherwise the vehicle has to stop racing or land safely on the ground.  They are also weight limited so the batteries are pushing the envelope when it comes to volumetric power density and volumetric capacity.  Also, RC batteries are subject to wild swings in sourcing current due to changes in electric motor load.  All these things combine to make every micro amp second of capacity matter which also means internal resistance optimization matters. Really not the case for a metal detector which is more or less putting out a relatively constant current demand.  The margin for error on capacity before it actually makes a difference is huge and the RC optimizations don’t necessarily expand battery usable lifetime.  In fact, as mentioned below, they may actually degrade the battery useable life which is definitely not where you want to go.

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31 minutes ago, Tahoegold said:

The guy I quoted gave results after this process showing it lowered the internal resistance. Also, Lipo battery makers have recommended a break in period for some reason.

After break in I will use a 2amp charger. However, I wonder, you say that because of the battery size, a 2amp should charge ot in 1.5hrs? So, they must have some kind of controller inside limiting the input. I'm also thinking, if RC batteries are Lipo and guys do this for them to reduce resistance, why not this Lipo battery?

   Either way, It seems this process won't do any harm to the battery. And, yes, it's just a little hobby fun too. I can't detect due to weather. I'm stuck at home for a few days and this gives me something to stave off the cabin fever! Thanks again! TG

More power to ya! 

And yes, I do think there's something in the charger or connected to the battery that's limiting the current sent to the battery.

You talk about R/C hobbyists doing these things to reduce internal resistance. But that's not the same thing as increasing a battery's life span. As PimentoUK already mentioned, these R/C applications require top performance where drivers are willing to sacrifice a battery's longevity to get a few extra mahs and tenths of a volt from their battery packs. So what they're doing may not necessarily lead to a longer battery life for low-drain applications like metal detecting.

Lithium batteries might benefit from being broken in. But I don't know what that benefit is. Also, even if that benefit relates to increasing cell life, I don't know what the exact procedure needs to be. For example, assuming your "partially charge, then rest..." method increases cell life, how do you know how long the rest and charge periods need to be? I assume you're making educated guesses, so there's no way to confirm that any benefits you're gaining are outweighing the drawbacks.

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I believe most machines use lithium ion and not lithium polymer batteries. Lipo are the older type that had a nasty issue with burning up if damaged.

With that being said I heard that you keep them charged between 50-80% to get the most life out of them. I tried that with my iphone and after a few years the 50-80% part of the battery would discharge very rapidly and the older remaining would discharge slower. My ipad which is older I would run it down quite often but never fully discharge it and charge it fully and battery seems to discharge evenly.

Recently replaced the battery in the iphone (not a job for those with unsteady hands or lack of magnifying glass) and been running it same as the ipad. Will let you guys know in a few years how that compares if I can remember 🙂

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The Simplex+ has a Lipo battery according to it's user manual.

Mainly, I just wanted to make sure I wouldn't damage the battery when using it for the first time. I have never used Lipo batteries and so wanted to see what are the procedures. It's a good thing because I was thinking at first I would run it down and charge it up a few times. Then I read that could hurt it. Also, I would have left it fully charged for the winter. Another mistake. 

  All this info may have saved me from hurting the battery. Even though it has a smart charger, draining it firts time probably would hurt it. 

Ok! So, good input here. Maybe it is splitting hairs. Could be! But it makes for interesting conversation for some of us! 

    Well, the topic of longevity may need to be on It's own thread so as to keep continuity of the break in info., but I like the input. 

I'm charging the Simplex today and I'll do this process. It seems safe enough. It probably won't change longevity or I may not notice performance differences, but, at least I won't trash the battery 1st thing! 

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24 minutes ago, Tahoegold said:

I won't trash the battery 1st thing! 

If you followed a company's recommendations, the only way this could happen is if there's a defect with the product. 

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The only thing they say is to use a 2amp charger. Nothing about storage, break in, or not running it all the way down. So, There really was a need for me in my mind to gather a little more info. I only am familiar with Nimh batteries. So, seems I would have had bad habits for the Lipo.

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30 minutes ago, Tahoegold said:

The only thing they say is to use a 2amp charger. Nothimg about storage, break in, or not running it all the way down. So, There really was a need for me in my mind to gather a little more info. I only am familiar with Nimh batteries. So, seems I would have had bad habits for the Lipo.

Those definitely benefit from break-ins...

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3 hours ago, kac said:

I believe most machines use lithium ion and not lithium polymer batteries. Lipo are the older type that had a nasty issue with burning up if damaged.

Sorry, Ken, that information is not quite accurate.  Modern LiPo is actually an advanced Lithium Ion battery technology that uses a microporous polymer separator material and electrolyte gel instead of liquid electrolyte as is used in traditional Li Ion batteries.  As a result, LiPos are more power dense (higher capacity at less weight), can better accommodate flat pack form factors and depending on the case material used can be more rugged than liquid electrolyte Li Ion cells (though foil pack LiPos can be more easily damaged).  LiPos tend to have a better ability to source higher currents in power demanding applications (such as RC vehicles).  The down side of LiPos is that they are generally more costly than liquid electrolyte Li Ion cells of similar capacity.  The charge parameters (charging voltage/current profile vs. time) for LiPo and Li Ion batteries of similar capacity are essentially the same.

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-206-lithium-polymer-substance-or-hype

 

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Ok, so the Simplex must have a controller for charging. I had 1 bar when I started charging with a 600ma charger. It took just ste same time the user manual said it would if using a 2amp charger. So, 3hrs from very low to full will work with just about any charger. Going to wait 30min and charge again to top off. Maybe it already has topped off. Electronics are getting pretty foolproof these days!

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