The Truth About Separation!

[diggindaboot]

Loren says "anyone can contrive a situation", which also includes him. Calabash's nails were turned sideways.   Loren's nails were up and down. Calabash's test is the more difficult of the 2. I've tested side by side with the Legend and the 800. D2 will win in iron. I won't get rid of my 800. I know it too well and it's been great for me. My cousin has a Legend and my hunting buddy has a Legend. It's been fun to compare. That's coming from someone who was gonna sell the D2. Glad I didn't.

[midalake]

3 hours ago, diggindaboot said:

But you keep mentioning all metal in your post about Calabash.  All metal doesn't work at every beach. Especially by people who say they dig every signal.

The horseshoe mode [all metal] works at every beach. It all depends on what one wants to tolerate. I never implied it is the right hunting method for every location.
The horseshoe mode on the Equinox is the deepest mode to detect in. It clearly rivals the D2 if not succeeds it on the wet sand, with the ability to correctly identify Nonferrous targets that will not TID.  Both the D2 and Equinox lose the ability to TID at nearly the same time. 
I NEVER advocate digging everything. In fact, because of the accuracy in which the Equinox can identify iron, my ferrous trash count has never been lower.     

3 hours ago, diggindaboot said:

Side by side hunt last Sunday with my buddy, we compared every signal for 3 hrs. D2 was superior at identifying targets and deeper. We've both used the 800 for 4 years. We know that detector and how to use it.

 I guess if you're digging lots of ferrous with the Equinox, you in fact do not know how to use it. 
I will say if you are using the Equinox in discrimination mode and comparing it to the D2, the D2 will perform better in this case.
  
However, when it comes down to operating modes. One needs to understand that there is no all metal mode on the D2. Iron is always "on". So if your comparing machines one should compare the Equinox and the D2 the same. By putting the Equinox in horseshoe it enables the iron "on". 

You had the option as well to set boundaries and "bins" including volume levels if you thought the Equinox was talking to you too much. [just like the D2 that has an iron level adjustment] The distinct bonus of operation in horseshoe mode is the Equinox's ability to separate the ferrous and nonferrous bins much BETTER. 

In summary, most beach hunters in 2022 complain about not hearing any targets, so working with the detector hearing everything is not an issue. The amount of beaches that have iron issues is limited. Since the Deus machines in general are noted  to be great in iron, I have no doubts you may have found the machine that would work best for your environment. Don't be afraid to post those killer gold finds.   HH  

 

[Jeff McClendon]

This topic is not about which detector, Deus, Deus 2, Equinox, Legend, etc. is better or worse and who says so. If you guys want to argue about that, maybe you could PM each other or start a new topic.......

This topic is about DD coil design and how staged separation testing can mislead both the tester and the viewer if the test has been videoed. What orientation the nails are in, whether it is a 2D or semi-3D test matters some but it doesn't change the DD coil design situation that Loren is talking about.

Take Monte's nail board test. Many older detectors using medium to small sized concentric coils will ace perfectly Monte's nail board test, even the down the barrel test with the coin right next to the nail. Why does Monte recommend detectors with smaller concentric coils for bed of nails situations.........and using the smallest possible DD coils if a detector can't run concentrics? Why do Monte and many others wish the Deus could run much smaller DD coils?

The original Deus even with the HF elliptical coil will not pass that down the barrel test cleanly. Coil control and lots of swing tweaking is required and on the original Deus, the IDs and the horseshoe meter still show iron responses and the audio is skewed way towards iron.

Does that mean a $100 Fisher 1266 with a 10" down to 5" concentric coil that aces Monte's nail board test is a better detector than the $1300 original Deus with a 9.5x5" elliptical DD coil in thick iron nails on shallow non-ferrous targets......maybe.

DD coil technology separation testing can be accidentally or purposely manipulated to reproduce the results that Loren is showing. That was the main takeaway from his video. Throwing one detector under a bus or throwing the 6" Equinox coil under the bus like lots of people did because they THOUGHT it was worse at separation than the 11"...........is just a good example of what Loren (on purpose) and accidentally (most likely) Calabash and History Revisited have shown in their videos. Basing purchase/not purchase or which is better just based on testing like that of detectors with DD coils like Loren said is inherently flawed thinking.

[midalake]

19 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

This topic is not about which detector, Deus, Deus 2, Equinox, Legend, etc. is better or worse and who says so. If you guys want to argue about that, maybe you could PM each other or start a new topic.......

I took the bait........sorry.........will try harder. 😏

[phrunt]

As I've always said, testing videos are only as honest as the person doing them, they may even think they're being honest yet their lack of understanding of what they're doing can be misleading to them and others. 

Loren seems an intelligent guy, and this was a good video.

Now just go out and have fun using your detectors, that's the important bit 🙂

 

[diggindaboot]

8 hours ago, midalake said:

 

 I guess if you're digging lots of ferrous with the Equinox, you in fact do not know how to use it. You would in fact, be terribly mistaken. 

  
So if your comparing machines one should compare the Equinox and the D2 the same. That's exactly what we did because I set up both detectors.



 The amount of beaches that have iron issues is limited.  You obviously haven't hunted Texas beaches.

 

 

[Gwcracker]

15 hours ago, diggindaboot said:

Loren says "anyone can contrive a situation", which also includes him. Calabash's nails were turned sideways.   Loren's nails were up and down. Calabash's test is the more difficult of the 2. I've tested side by side with the Legend and the 800. D2 will win in iron. I won't get rid of my 800. I know it too well and it's been great for me. My cousin has a Legend and my hunting buddy has a Legend. It's been fun to compare. That's coming from someone who was gonna sell the D2. Glad I didn't.

You have been had.

[Johnnysalami1957]

Well for years I've been thinking that there is no valid above the ground canned demonstrations of a detectors "capabilities". Including Montes nail board test. There are no targets in the field that even come close to any of these comparisons. I'll go as far as to say test gardens don't replicate targets that have been in natural ground for many years. You can't apply exact science to these machines due to the variables. You can apply math, physics. in the design of these machines. But someone can follow a D2 with a Compadre and find a target the D2 missed due to just an improper swing. Like the quarter under the foil demo. When's the last time anyone saw that while detecting. You want to really do a demo. Hook up a coil to a robotic arm so everyone can replicate the exact same thing. Coil speed, height angle etc. I'm getting a D2 for one reason, the weight. The adjustments are secondary because I'm not interested in fiddling to get a better result that may change with each swing of the coil. Sure it would be great if we could see into the ground, but for every target passed over because it may be bad, is a potential loss of a good target. Geez when did this start not being fun and so analytical for the small % of people that use these pro features. It's like the side effects of medicine. Not all will experience them and they vary in everyone. Sorry for the run on but this used to be more fun and informative. 

[longbow62]

Diggindaboot I've been swinging the Equinox for almost 4 years. I'm not sure what your talking about when it comes to digging iron with the Equinox.

I guess if you're digging lots of ferrous with the Equinox, you in fact do not know how to use it. You would in fact, be terribly mistaken. 

I've found it extremely easy to tell what's iron and what's not iron. If your saying you have to investigate more falsing iron with the Equinox I might be able to buy that. Even in very old thick iron situations I can avoid digging much iron. I have not used the D2, but have a buddy that has one and maybe he doesn't know it well enough yet, but I'm the one telling him what's iron and what's not iron.  
 

[Jeff McClendon]

Looks like the Equinox vs Deus 2 "fun" (not) is still brewing here too and is not going to just be left alone.

It's a shame that two and maybe even three (Legend) great detectors can't just be enjoyed for what they offer us. Instead, many people just want to believe and prove who has the biggest and best even though their only evidence comes from their little detecting worlds...............humans.