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Why I Tend Not To Post My Finds


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In a long detecting life, you will find large quantities of everything. My partners knew what I found, and my X went to nursing school thanks to some of it. My grandkid's will enjoy what is left. Hell, I even went to the closet and grabbed my Garrett ADS 4. It filled up a small museum. Nice.

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I read this topic with pleasure. 
Here in Europe, especially Italy (I'm writing from San Marino but it makes little difference) and Greece the laws are absolutely prohibitive, everything you find belongs to the State, and you have to be lucky that they don't get suspicious and come knocking at your house at 5 in the morning, that's why 90% of the prospectors do beach or militaria. 

In the U.S. I do not know how the rules are, but from the point of view of freedom you are 10 steps ahead, here the archaeologists, let's say they feel a kind of mystical lodge, closed in on themselves, to have a specialized study you have to show up with at least two degrees or you do not even pass half a sheet of paper (and their salaries are paid by the taxes we pay every year) we are talking about military maps from the early 1940s, not the location of archaic tombs. ..

If they could, they would immediately ban even the simple possession of a pipe detector, because they are convinced that detectorists are the ultimate evil. We have had the problem of grave robbers for at least 300 years (and they use Caterpillars, not Minelabs), but for them the real problems are those who go out on Sundays to dig in the trenches of the First World War.

Evidently the desire to actually find things does not go hand in hand with the work they are paid to do.

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On 5/7/2022 at 3:29 AM, Badger-NH said:

 

....The whole theft by finding thing is a joke. How did that rule even find it's way into the books?...

 

 

Actually, no,  it's not a joke.  And actually, the evolution of how these laws is easy to see .  They exist in various wording, in all 50 states. 

 

1)  The evolution :  Born out of wandering cattle laws of the 1800s.  So that if someone's cow gets out of the owner's pasture, it's not the next guy's lucky day to "find" that cow, and simply keep it.   See ?

 

2) And as for this being "a joke" in modern times, let's do a thought experiment :  Let's say you are downtown with your wife, out for a romantic dinner at a nice restaurant.   As you get back to your car, your wife immediately realizes she doesn't have her 2 carat diamond solitaire wedding ring on !  She remembers that she took it off in the restroom, when she had gone to wash her hands minutes earlier.  So she rushes back to the restroom at the restaurant.   But it's now gone.

 

Ok, you tell me :  Who does the ring belong to ? Your wife ?  Or the lucky person who had gone into the restroom next, and "found" it ??  What if your wife dropped it on the sidewalk ?  Or the beach ?  And it's found a mere 5 minutes later before you had time to retrace your steps and pick it up ? 

 

Why would the laws be any different for us on the beach then ?  See how these aren't ridiculous laws ?

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On 5/7/2022 at 8:12 AM, Flavius Titus said:

..... everything you find belongs to the State,....

I will not address the part of your post about "Greece", but in-so-far as Italy goes :

 

I corresponded with a hunter from Italy before.  And he had no problem md'ing.  And no ..... the state didn't come to him and take all his finds, etc.....   

 

So I was the "devil's advocate" and linked him to "dire sounding laws" (that sound like what you're saying here) in those European compendiums that people compiled  decades ago .  You know, the ones that purport to list the laws of each European country, and often contain "dire sounding" info.   He just chuckled and said that all the dire things you read there only apply to public land. Not private land.  So "farmer Bob" is free to do whatever he wants on his own land.   

 

And that, besides, when he & his buddies go detecting, that ...... quite frankly ... they are so far out in the boondocks that there's no one one around to care, in the first place.   And so he and many others detect Italy, no problem.

 

And actually , we too, here in the USA, can also not technically keep things we find on public land either (if we wanted to fret ourselves silly enough).  Because technically, it would fall under laws/rules that forbid "harvest", "remove", "steal", etc....  In other words, in the same way that I am forbidden to go take home the park benches, harvest the sod or sand for commercial sale, etc... SO TOO would the same verbiage also apply to coins and rings in the park. 

 

Now does anyone really care, when it comes to routine benign parks, forests, beaches ?  OF COURSE NOT !   But if I asked enough lawyers and bureaucrats "can I ?", I'll bet I can find someone to tell me "no".  And then I could publish that finding in a compendium of laws, and announce :  MD'ing isn't allowed.   Which is why you sometimes have to read between the lines on those compendium guide links. 

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1 hour ago, Tom_in_CA said:

I will not address the part of your post about "Greece", but in-so-far as Italy goes :

 

I corresponded with a hunter from Italy before.  And he had no problem md'ing.  And no ..... the state didn't come to him and take all his finds, etc.....   

 

So I was the "devil's advocate" and linked him to "dire sounding laws" (that sound like what you're saying here) in those European compendiums that people compiled  decades ago .  You know, the ones that purport to list the laws of each European country, and often contain "dire sounding" info.   He just chuckled and said that all the dire things you read there only apply to public land. Not private land.  So "farmer Bob" is free to do whatever he wants on his own land.   

 

And that, besides, when he & his buddies go detecting, that ...... quite frankly ... they are so far out in the boondocks that there's no one one around to care, in the first place.   And so he and many others detect Italy, no problem.

 

And actually , we too, here in the USA, can also not technically keep things we find on public land either (if we wanted to fret ourselves silly enough).  Because technically, it would fall under laws/rules that forbid "harvest", "remove", "steal", etc....  In other words, in the same way that I am forbidden to go take home the park benches, harvest the sod or sand for commercial sale, etc... SO TOO would the same verbiage also apply to coins and rings in the park. 

 

Now does anyone really care, when it comes to routine benign parks, forests, beaches ?  OF COURSE NOT !   But if I asked enough lawyers and bureaucrats "can I ?", I'll bet I can find someone to tell me "no".  And then I could publish that finding in a compendium of laws, and announce :  MD'ing isn't allowed.   Which is why you sometimes have to read between the lines on those compendium guide links. 

You can search in Italy and in the countries I have listed. The problem comes when you find something antique.

If I find a German WW2 helmet, that's it, I restore it and save it, and if I want I donate it to a local museum.

If, on the other hand, you find a sestertius and you don't report it, especially in Italy and Greece (and I think Spain too, but I'm not sure if it's in all regions), you end up in trouble in no time at all.
With the new laws enacted in Italy in March 2022, I can guarantee that the unjustified possession of archaeological property has become a criminal offence punished in an extremely serious manner.

Then, that the controls are ridiculous and you have to do it on purpose to be discovered, you are absolutely right (half of those who get into trouble are the usual heroes of the Internet with their eagerness to appear always and everywhere posting photos and videos of everything they find).
On average, however, those who find themselves in remote areas, I doubt if they report anything to the authorities, and the guy who told you this is right.

I can assure you, however, that all finds must be reported, both on public and private land, in fact there is an absurd law of 1923 that indicates the " underground " and whatever is in it as state property.
At what depth is not clear, and every time you are at the mercy of bureaucrats and absurd laws.

Anyway thanks for the explanation about the laws in the US, I didn't know the part about public lands.

Here in San Marino it doesn't change much anyway, under a certain age you must declare everything, that then the authorities are much less pressing is absolutely true, but it is so small the space of land where you can search, that by now almost everything there was to find, has been found.

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25 minutes ago, Flavius Titus said:

....

Anyway thanks for the explanation about the laws in the US, I didn't know the part about public lands....

And thank you for the info. on Italy.

 

As for the "ok to detect" but "can't keep antiquities", then actually, SO TOO do we have a similar situation here in the USA.  But with much less-years-criteria.  For federal land here (hence, doesn't apply to state or county or city lands, unless brought in by specific inclusion) .  Our "ARPA" law would not disallow md'ing, UNLESS you were disturbing or taking antiquities.  And that's generally interpreted to be 50 of 100 yrs old objects.  So:  You can hunt for modern coins in areas with such language.  Eg. fresh loss jewelry, nuggets in natural form, meteorites, etc...  But just not old coins.   Not unlike what you describe for Italy (the WWII helmet, versus the 2000 yr. old statue)

 

HOWEVER, as for ARPA (aka "cultural heritage" issues) : As long as you're not snooping around obvious historic sensitive monuments, and not being an utter nuisance , traipsing through an archaeologist convention, then :  Let's be dreadfully honest :  Is anyone out roaming our deserts, forests, and beaches, armed with a calculator, doing the math on the ages of coins that we find ?  OF COURSE NOT.   :huh:

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Like most laws they don't use common sense, and if kept simple the wrong person will find a way to get around it. If something of value (cash or Historic) the responsible finder should be compensated with cash and recognition for doing the right thing. Another thing is a lot of thief's are commonly covered up with "I found it" which is hard to prove that the cow wandered into the farm or was led in.

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