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Equinox Vs Deus 2 Separation Test Or???????????


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Taken from page 3 RE- Minelab Equinox owners - Question: "NASA Tom" On the EQX 800 platform...… you have Target Recovery Response speed choices of 1-8. The EQX 800 platform is at Electronic Quiescence....with a TRR of '3'. It is 'maximum-tuned' at speed '3'. Any deviation above/below '3'..... and you start to get: out-of-electronic-tune. Now...…. with this EQX platform..... you can choose a Recovery Speed of '8'..... and it works/sounds great!...… but.,.,.,.,., in reality...….. you are not achieving any enhanced/greater adjacent target separation characteristics.,.,.,.,.,.,., you are merely 'clipping' the audio length. In some applications..... it may be helpful to the human ear...… as far as human audible intelligibility; yet, enhancement of adjacent target separation is not physically possible. . . . . . . . due to the following physics principle

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14 minutes ago, longbow62 said:

Taken from page 3 RE- Minelab Equinox owners - Question: "NASA Tom" On the EQX 800 platform...… you have Target Recovery Response speed choices of 1-8. The EQX 800 platform is at Electronic Quiescence....with a TRR of '3'. It is 'maximum-tuned' at speed '3'. Any deviation above/below '3'..... and you start to get: out-of-electronic-tune. Now...…. with this EQX platform..... you can choose a Recovery Speed of '8'..... and it works/sounds great!...… but.,.,.,.,., in reality...….. you are not achieving any enhanced/greater adjacent target separation characteristics.,.,.,.,.,.,., you are merely 'clipping' the audio length. In some applications..... it may be helpful to the human ear...… as far as human audible intelligibility; yet, enhancement of adjacent target separation is not physically possible. . . . . . . . due to the following physics principle

Longbow62, take into consideration that NASA Tom tests and hunts in some of the mildest, most inert dirt in the world.

Recovery speeds faster than Equinox 800 setting 3 have their uses especially in higher mineralization/noisy ground.

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So, I have been keeping mostly in the background and reading your responses to my first post in this topic.

No one has addressed the elephant in the room which very simply is..........why was Deus 2 Fast completely missing those tiny foil targets 2  inches closer to the coil than that dime? I used the word "missing" on purpose. They were clearly present. The Equinox hit them easily.

Unfortunately, after using a Deus 2 for over a week, I believe it has very little to do with target separation or some kind of "super detector which can see through aluminum foil" advanced behavior.

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5 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

So, I have been keeping mostly in the background and reading your responses to my first post in this topic.

No one has addressed the elephant in the room which very simply is..........why was Deus 2 Fast completely missing those tiny foil targets 2  inches closer to the coil than that dime? I used the word "missing" on purpose. They were clearly present. The Equinox hit them easily.

Unfortunately, after using a Deus 2 for over a week, I believe it has very little to do with target separation or some kind of "super detector which can see through aluminum foil" advanced behavior.

Have you tried the responds with a similar size piece of gold foil that has no thickness and a piece of thicker aluminium. Both Aluminium and Gold have a low conductivity resistance but the eddy currents need a cross sectional area to conduct the current.

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This test situation is similar to "Sube's test ".... with one aluminum pulltab with a center and two silver coins on the sides of the pulltab.

it's Test for true target ID ...which shows which type of target the detector can lock the VDI signal ...:wink:

We test the "detection logic" of the detector ... in a situation like this ... that simulates conductive ground pollution ... in this case, low-conductivity aluminum scrap ...

This test passes my Equinox 800 at 1 frequency 4 and 5 khz ,,,, I would also try to use it in David's test ... which uses small pieces of aluminum on the surface and a coin 2 inches lower.

Both detectors  Spectra V3 and Tek.G2 ...locked the signal on the VDI Silver Coin....!!!

This fully coincides with the "American detection philosophy" of the detector constructor ... who I prefer and in such a situation the locking of the mixed signal on the VDI - High Conductivity "Silver Tariff" ... and the suppression of the low conductive VDI ...

Equinox uses more of the "European detection philosophy", which in such a slump will prefer VDI targets - such as the low-conductivity silver / gold Hammerred coin, or small aluminum...

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PS. Spectra V3 is very specific in this case .... it can even completely suppress the signal of the low-conducting target ... / nickel / for the previous signal with the higher VDI ...- if the low-conducting coin is the last target ....
... I noticed this many years ago during Spectra tests on various conductive coins placed side by side, ...

...At the time, I considered it a technical flaw ... Spectra V3 ,, but now, after years, I know ... that it was the technical focus of the Whites designers ... which was targeted at the American Environment Detection-where detection of high-conductivity targets is preferred. .-American silver coins ...

IMG_20200412_152430.thumb.jpg.0b1d77fc20e778a8b03c2d01a0a138c7.jpg

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On 5/21/2022 at 12:21 AM, longbow62 said:

Taken from page 3 RE- Minelab Equinox owners - Question: "NASA Tom" On the EQX 800 platform...… you have Target Recovery Response speed choices of 1-8. The EQX 800 platform is at Electronic Quiescence....with a TRR of '3'. It is 'maximum-tuned' at speed '3'. Any deviation above/below '3'..... and you start to get: out-of-electronic-tune. Now...…. with this EQX platform..... you can choose a Recovery Speed of '8'..... and it works/sounds great!...… but.,.,.,.,., in reality...….. you are not achieving any enhanced/greater adjacent target separation characteristics.,.,.,.,.,.,., you are merely 'clipping' the audio length. In some applications..... it may be helpful to the human ear...… as far as human audible intelligibility; yet, enhancement of adjacent target separation is not physically possible. . . . . . . . due to the following physics principle

Tom D is a smart guy (I mean you can tell because, you know, he's from NASA), and a prominent detectorist with a website 😉but geez, he really makes some off the wall statements at times that make other engineers like yours truly, just roll their eyeballs. The quote is a typical example.  I mean there is some truth here but there also is some serious mumbo jumbo tech speak going on here, and he is just simply mistaken regarding the mysterious physics principles limiting Nox maximum target separation capability to 3 unless he is referring to the fact that there is only so much you can do with any given coil. Or, quite possibly, I am totally missing his (legitimate?) point because a lot of the context of the post is missing.

Anyway, his "'maximum-tuned" "Electric Quiesence" reminds me of the "Retro Encabulator" video and like Jeff said ignores the "physics" effects of varying soil mineralization, but also: magnetic field shapes afforded by different coils; co-located target shape/composition field effects; and most importantly the variable signal processing speed capabilities of the Equinox detector, itself, especially in its different modes of operation.  Yes, a Recovery Speed setting of 3 in Tom's treasure coast detecting world may give him Electric Quiesence Nirvana, but doesn't give me the detector response or separation needed in the hot dirt, iron hell patches I encounter in Culpeper Virginia, the Northern Neck, and SE Pennsylvania. And do you really think ML would snake oil it's customers and violate "physics principle[s]" by setting the Nox 800 default Recovery speed settings at between 4 and 7 (depending on mode) if "3" was really "maximum-tuned"?  Call me skeptical, but I doubt it. :rolleyes:

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On 5/20/2022 at 9:38 PM, Jeff McClendon said:

Longbow62, take into consideration that NASA Tom tests and hunts in some of the mildest, most inert dirt in the world.

Recovery speeds faster than Equinox 800 setting 3 have their uses especially in higher mineralization/noisy ground.

With all due respect to Tom, much of the information that he presents is not very applicable in bad ground. People read his stuff like he is the last word in what works. The reality is that the information is not useful in some cases, counterproductive in others. Nobody has a corner on metal detecting knowledge, and anyone hunting magnetite laden ground, should take many of Toms statements with a large grain of salt. The depths he reports are so much deeper than what many people will experience they will think their detector is broken. He normally hunts ground so mild it may as well be air testing.

How many people know about the effects of packed hot rocks on targets, and the benefits of higher recovery speeds in places loaded with stuff like that? Hot rocks mask adjacent targets just as well as nails in some locations. Hint - higher recovery speeds like 5-6, possibly even 7, can be very useful in really bad ground.

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On 5/20/2022 at 9:43 PM, Jeff McClendon said:

So, I have been keeping mostly in the background and reading your responses to my first post in this topic.

No one has addressed the elephant in the room which very simply is..........why was Deus 2 Fast completely missing those tiny foil targets 2  inches closer to the coil than that dime? I used the word "missing" on purpose. They were clearly present. The Equinox hit them easily.

Unfortunately, after using a Deus 2 for over a week, I believe it has very little to do with target separation or some kind of "super detector which can see through aluminum foil" advanced behavior.

In my opinion the Deus II is specifically tuned to do better in areas where the Deus I and ORX are weakest. Specifically silver coins in parks laden with modern trash. I do not think it was meant to challenge those detectors on small low conductors. My Equinox versus Deus II field comparisons on tiny low conductors in bad ground will not have me putting my Equinox aside as a small gold nugget detector. However, I saw great promise for high conductors in bad ground. So much so I’m switching from the 9” coil for my D2 to an 11” coil instead, as my intended uses for the detector have changed. In a nutshell I’m going to give it a go for hunting silver in parks with fairly bad ground.

What I saw was not absolute depths exceeding the Equinox, as both it and the D2 hit the same coins at the same depth in magnetite laden ground. However, the Equinox started up averaging the results sooner than the Deus II at depth, with the Deus 2 holding a more accurate target id to greater depths than the Equinox. On the deepest targets the Equinox up averaged enough to “wrap around” and read ferrous on the deepest high conductors, which is normal for detectors on targets in the worst ground. The Deus II edged the Equinox out, still calling those coins accurately, when I might have passed them as deep ferrous with the Nox. This is all the more impressive as it was the ability of the Nox to hold accurate target id at depth in bad ground that first really wowed me with the Equinox, versus other detectors in my ground.

Long story short the Deus 2 is no slouch on small low conductors, but in my opinion can’t match machines like the 24K, or Deus 1 and ORX if they are running the HF coils. I also think the Equinox barely has the edge on tiny low conductors with the 11” coils. Put a 6” coil on the Nox though and it’s no contest. I want to reiterate though the D2 is very good on low conductors, and will find nickels as well or better than most detectors. I’d be able to hunt gold nuggets with it just fine, but it just won’t match the few that define best of the best in that arena.

What I’m liking is what I see for high conductors in the worst magnetite soils, and as long as EMI in town does not mess me up, I’m hoping it can pull some silver out of ground where I did well with the Equinox. If the Deus 2 can impress me at the park, it may hang around. We’ll see. I’ve had one sitting around for over a week now, and been too busy to even get out once with it, but maybe next week.

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58 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Nobody has a corner on metal detecting knowledge

Amen to that! 

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First of all I personally always use a recovery of at least 4, and as high as 6 in the programs I use. So I haven't been bogged down by the comment Tom made about the Equinox and recovery speed.

So is the statement Tom made true about it only being audio clipping above a recovery setting of 3? Statements have been made about bad dirt vs. mild. I didn't know recovery speed actually mattered with the type dirt you had. Can someone explain why it matters. It would seem if it truly was only audio clipping above a recovery setting of 3 then raising the recovery speed higher wouldn't matter in how the detector handles the hot vs. mild ground. Yeah now I'm confused on this.  

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