Axiom Release Date

[Steve Herschbach]

I’m pretty sure that was a letter sent to dealers, for them to place dealer orders, not an announcement to the public. Dealer orders usually go out first come, first serve, so getting lined up asap does matter, and placing orders months in advance is not unusual at all.

I can see why people who not as cynical and jaded as I am would believe what manufacturers say. I am not casting stones at anyone. I simply know that unless an explicit date is given, words like day, or week, mean absolutely nothing. The goal is to make you think that you need to order now. It’s all just blah blah blah until something actually ships, and that will be whenever. Anyway, I’ve tried to pass on to people realistic times based on decades of experience, and inside information, but frankly it’s pretty much a waste of time from what I can see, so I’ll let it go.

[Gerry in Idaho]

As a dealer and field tester of the Axiom,  I have to walk a fine line in keeping both parties happy.  Sometimes that's very hard and in fact for customers,  it's almost impossible.  When I get information,  it's my duty to share that info with you all.  

As for actual release date,  I feel it would have already been out if not for Steve H. and I both complaining about a few things.  What is impressive in my opinion,  Garrett decided to address these issues knowing full well, it's going to cause delays. It's going to piss off a few folks and interrupt some plans for folks.  Heck I even had customers signed up for the 3 days field training I'm currently doing right now this weekend at Rye Patch NV.  I know for a fact 1 particular customer was extremely disappointed.  So am I to a point.  

But the truth and long story is....how well the detector is perceived and performs when it gets into customers hands.  That's most important to Garrett at the end of the day. 

They could have been like other brands and released it, to only have many upset customers smashing the Garrett name.  They already know % of people are already going to bash it as that's what some folks enjoy.  The truth is that most folks will now be pleased.  Sure we waited a couple extra months,  but in doing so, we have an overall better product.

I feel Garrett made the right decision and also wish other manufacturers would do the same in getting it right,  even if it takes weeks longer.  On a $4000 detector, the highest priced detector they've ever made, the detector so many folks are wanting to get. Garrett has 1 shot at getting it right.  They deserve a little wiggle room.

Sure wish Fisher would try to do a high end PI.   Oh wait...I think they did and what dumpster did that end up in?  

Patience my friends. 

[mn90403]

1 hour ago, Gerry in Idaho said:

I feel it would have already been out if not for Steve H. and I both complaining about a few things. 

Complain, complain, complain!

Good job Gerry.  Keep it up.  Gold patches are depleted so this detector may be their best shot at a volume seller at that price point.  It would be difficult to survive a massive recall or social media rejection over fixable, desirable items.

[phrunt]

Thanks for saying that Gerry, it needed said.

Garrett is on the right track, I'm not one to shy away for bashing a product when deserved, I don't enjoy it as it means I'm genuinely upset I wasted good money on that product and my bashing's purpose is to try ensure that product is brought up to a standard I expect for the price I paid., it's all relative.

My Ace detectors, love them, good value for money, work as expected in the price range they're in with fantastic build quality for the price, in fact I think they very much exceed the price they're in.  Dissatisfaction is relative to the price paid.   I'm quite vocal about another detector I purchased due to price vs quality and for the price I expected a lot, it didn't deliver to my expectations.  

Garrett has absolutely done the right thing, and full respect from me.  Either way you can't make everyone happy, I'd always prefer to wait and get the better product than have to keep sending it back to get it fixed or put up with it how it is.   I'm beyond happy the Axiom is coming soon and very much appreciate Garrett bringing it to market.  A real heartfelt thanks to Garrett from me, it looks to be a really good detector.

[Carolina]

16 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

I like that kind of accountability challenge!

An hour or so ago I posted on a ML Manticore thread the Manticore Christmas ad in the most recent Gold Prospectors magazine.  Here's the back cover of that same issue with one of your recent mates.

I suspect both images are somewhere on the internet (Facebook?) and maybe have been there for awhile.  Doesn't seem that long ago (couple months?) when all this was understandably top secret.  Good times ahead, even if not everyone will be satisfied with the actual release dates.  "...You can't please all of the people all of the time."  (Attributed to English Middle Ages poet John Lydgate.)

Uncanny resemblance of Steve H. picture, Axiom not just for gold. Nuggets and six pence. 

[Steve Herschbach]

4 hours ago, Carolina said:

Uncanny resemblance of Steve H. picture, Axiom not just for gold. Nuggets and six pence. 

I traveled and hunted with Warren and company for a couple weeks, and the gold we all found was all about the same size, hunting well pounded locations. All the big stuff is gone. In my case I actually found a sixpence. In the case of this ad, its a newer one set there merely to provide scale for the gold nuggets. The nuggets in fact are from Warrens earlier trip to Tibooburra. Due to the lead time needed for magazine ads, the stuff from our trip was too late for this ad.

You are reading more into the ad from that coin than is intended. Garrett is really wanting to promote this as a gold nugget detector, so I'm actually going off trail talking about beach, relic, or coin detecting with the machine.

[Carolina]

8 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I traveled and hunted with Warren and company for a couple weeks, and the gold we all found was all about the same size, hunting well pounded locations. All the big stuff is gone. In my case I actually found a sixpence. In the case of this ad, its a newer one set there merely to provide scale for the gold nuggets. The nuggets in fact are from Warrens earlier trip to Tibooburra. Due to the lead time needed for magazine ads, the stuff from our trip was too late for this ad.

You are reading more into the ad from that coin than is intended. Garrett is really wanting to promote this as a gold nugget detector, so I'm actually going off trail talking about beach, relic, or coin detecting with the machine.

I’m not reading anything other than the resemblance of the two post. (Yours which I can not find anymore) did read Axiom not just for gold. That’s a pretty clear statement although I believe you did say it was a partial or junk signal. Not sure as maybe you pulled the post. 

[Jeff McClendon]

48 minutes ago, Carolina said:

I’m not reading anything other than the resemblance of the two post. (Yours which I can not find anymore) did read Axiom not just for gold. That’s a pretty clear statement although I believe you did say it was a partial or junk signal. Not sure as maybe you pulled the post. 

The post you can't find is right next to this one. To make it easier here is the link.....

 

[Steve Herschbach]

4 hours ago, Carolina said:

I’m not reading anything other than the resemblance of the two post. (Yours which I can not find anymore) did read Axiom not just for gold. That’s a pretty clear statement although I believe you did say it was a partial or junk signal. Not sure as maybe you pulled the post. 

It's on this Garrett Forum, just below this thread last I looked. Yes, I am making exactly that statement, that Axiom will be a great all around PI, for beach, relics, coins... not just gold nuggets. I'm also just saying that I'm off the reservation saying that, as Garrett wants to keep it focused on the gold nugget market. The only people that did any testing were nugget hunters. Their use of a coin in their ad was for scale, nothing more. In my post, it's definitely intended to send the message that Axiom is for more than just nugget detecting.

It was not a junk signal. It was a low/high signal. That can be interpreted as junk, but only means "large/strong target" and high/low means "small/weak target". The tones correspond exactly with other dual tone PI detectors like all the Minelabs and the Infinium/ATX, as it is a byproduct of the dual channel ground balance system. The flip point between the two signals is determined by the current ground balance settings, but tends to end up somewhere in the region of a zinc penny when in bad ground. Just where depends on the exact ground and ground balance setting. In mild ground it could be far different. I need to experiment more with that, plus determine where the default setting is at.

If you get a target right at the tipping point, you will get a weird "tone flipping" response, that is actually a third tone indication.

The TDI and Fisher Impulse, as single channel models, have a simpler tone arrangement, either low, or high. However, the basics are the same. I wrote an extensive article on all this, referencing all my previous articles, for those that want to delve into how to use a ground balancing PI detector to discriminate items. The secret is knowing that is not about target composition so much as it is about target size and conductivity, with ferrous on both sides of the scale, small on one side, and large on the other. So small gold / low conductors and small ferrous read the same. Large ferrous and most coins / high conductors read the same. Take all that, and add the Axiom positive response Iron Check, and you have a pretty versatile discrimination system for those that will learn it. The way to do that is completely forget anything you think you know about VLF discrimination, and learn this new way of doing things with a fresh and open mind.

I'm really hating the fact that I'm coming off like an Axiom salesperson, as that was never my intent when this all started. I simply wanted to help a U.S. manufacturer do something to stay in the game, and give people who are interested some different options. I have done the best I can in that regard, but I'm not the one who designed or makes the detector, just a guy trying hard to make sure it ends up being the best it can be for what it is. I have no doubt some people will like it, and that others will prefer other detectors. That's fine. My advice as always is that people wait six months to a year for the dust to settle. People jumping on the bus sight unseen always do so at their own risk, and hopefully realize that before spouting off about stuff in a couple months. If it's not what you wanted or hoped for, well, it's nobody's fault but your own for pulling the trigger early. Any doubts and concerns, just wait and see. It's really that simple.

Anyway, my part in all this is basically done now, if because of the weather, if nothing else. I've put well over 200 hours on the Axiom in the last year, in Nevada, California, Alaska, and Australia. Garrett has implemented a lot of my suggestions, so working with them has been a pleasure in that regard. I think it is a better product for the effort. Gerry has me for total weight, but I've no doubt found more gold nuggets than anyone with the Axiom so far, with a couple ounces of mostly small stuff in my vial now. Now comes the sit back and see part for me, as I am truly as curious to see how the Axiom is received by the general public. In large part though, it is Africa that matters a lot more than the U.S. or even Australia. Results there will be far more opaque to most of us, and it is there that the real success of the Axiom will be gauged by Garrett.

2.25 ounces of gold I found with Axiom in last year. 20.33 grams Nevada and California in upper left, 13.15 grams Australia in upper right, and 36.61 grams Alaska along bottom. Largest nugget in upper left a gorgeous California 1/4 oz specimen. Smallest nuggets around 0.02 grams.

Gold found by Steve with Garrett Axiom

Better picture of that 1/4 oz California nugget

[GB_Amateur]

Sending subliminal messages again, Steve?  What does that 1/4 oz nugget look like in the first photo (upper left corner)?