Jump to content

Question For The More Experienced On Tones


Recommended Posts

I always found the best way (for me)to understand what the machine is saying is putting it on a lot of targets.   Might say I only hunted for the easy stuff.   Parks, schools and beaches.    So digging a lot of targets to learn the machine.    Always been a question to me is how people hunting for the hard stuff like silver in iron infested sites can really get to know their machines.   I'm guessing hunting silver in over grown trashy areas sometimes means finding a very few good targets per hunt.    Now I understand many hunters take far less time to understand a machine than others.      A lot of hunters are still learning a machine even after digging a thousand good targets in the wild.    I'm talking  clad, jewelry.       Going out and digging a thousand silvers or nice relics to me would take for ever to master a machine.       On top of that the newer machines are far more complicated.     It just seems to me that some can fully evaluate a machine in far, far less time than others.   I got to admit I often learn something new every time I go out.   So having comparisons with a few machines ( some borrowed ) on a handful of targets (some staged ) and then making a decision is beyond my pay grade.     So hats off to the ones out there that are recognized as reliable testers.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites


All part of what makes this a fascinating pursuit and illustrates how important it is for sincere posts by others on the forums.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I am in iron.....I dig everything above iron.

I do not particularly worry about vdi numbers....due to the fact a coin next to iron will not always give correct tone id. 

So ......for the most part in trashy iron areas....I just dig all the good signals.....whether they turn out to be good or not......it is all just a crap shoot.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Dancer said:

 It just seems to me that some can fully evaluate a machine in far, far less time than others. 

Not really. People doing these quickie YouTube reviews, who have less than 100 hours detecting in diverse environments, are doing nothing more than offering you fast opinions on whether they like something or not. I buy a sandwich, give it a couple bites, tell you I don't like it. But really does not mean you won't like it.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Depends on the machine but typically in heavy iron I prefer analog machines with a concentric coil. If I run into heavy iron with a machine that has a dd coil first thing I do is set my tone break to break on an iron nail and try to make passes over targets in more than just one direction to hear if there is a chirp of something better. Smaller DD's will do better as they have better separation.

No matter what don't expect id #'s that you would typically see in clean grounds as multiple targets can occupy the same detection area.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, I've been hunting since 2002.    I got an example         How doe's someone make a decision to get rid of a proven expensive   machine for almost a clone of the machine they got rid of.      Say the Deus 1 vs the Deus 2    (Just a example I've never even seen any Deus)  Can the D2 improve a hunters finds enough to make the switch? Even when most guys dig  the  iffy signals anyway.      Not picking on Deus, name most any other company and they have Clones of machines that have been around for many years.           So 3 of us wade Panama City for 2-3 months in the winter.   It can be quite perky in there most times.    One guy beats the 2 others most years.        He's younger, can hunt deeper and longer.   He hunts a 20+ yr. old Excal.     I run a Tarsacci other pal a Nox 600       Fairly new machines.    Huh ?    How would he do with our machines?  About the same I bet.     He can find holes out just a little too deep for us two.     This guy tries his best to share his spots with us too.  A real good guy.  So because he can get out to the sweet spot he can out do us with his machine    or ours.   

IFor good results        #1  It's  the Site    #2   The hunter   #3    The Machine             I don't see how you can get around it. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the salt the Excal is still one of the top machines, very hard to beat unless you dig all with a pi. Excal is tuned specifically for the salt.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/1/2022 at 6:33 AM, Dancer said:

 It just seems to me that some can fully evaluate a machine in far, far less time than others.   I got to admit I often learn something new every time I go out.   So having comparisons with a few machines ( some borrowed ) on a handful of targets (some staged ) and then making a decision is beyond my pay grade. 

Think I know where you are going with thoughts? 

For me when I grab a new machine, I consider the platform and then the tones and nuisances, so it is a two-prong approach. 
I would say it is rather easy for me now to evaluate a new machine at the beach and get pretty close as to its full performance by looking at buried targets and comparing to another machine on wild targets.
 
Example: When I posted my 5-day review of the D2, back in March, looking back and now owning the machine I can confidently say that everything I posted was spot on and I would not retract anything for the conditions we tested.
But imagine my surprise when I was on the same beach in July and could not even run in the same mode!!!  

Going back to what I said in the beginning about a two-prong approach. The second stage of learning the tonal nuisances, working with close conductors, and learning the machine with different soil/sand conditions takes much longer than 25 hours in 5 days. To understand the second phase, you're looking at 100-300 hours depending on the person. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Dancer said:

So, I've been hunting since 2002.    I got an example         How doe's someone make a decision to get rid of a proven expensive   machine for almost a clone of the machine they got rid of.      Say the Deus 1 vs the Deus 2    (Just a example I've never even seen any Deus)  Can the D2 improve a hunters finds enough to make the switch? Even when most guys dig  the  iffy signals anyway.      Not picking on Deus, name most any other company and they have Clones of machines that have been around for many years.           So 3 of us wade Panama City for 2-3 months in the winter.   It can be quite perky in there most times.    One guy beats the 2 others most years.        He's younger, can hunt deeper and longer.   He hunts a 20+ yr. old Excal.     I run a Tarsacci other pal a Nox 600       Fairly new machines.    Huh ?    How would he do with our machines?  About the same I bet.     He can find holes out just a little too deep for us two.     This guy tries his best to share his spots with us too.  A real good guy.  So because he can get out to the sweet spot he can out do us with his machine    or ours.   

IFor good results        #1  It's  the Site    #2   The hunter   #3    The Machine             I don't see how you can get around it. 

This is just my opinion based on 52+ years of detecting with dozens of different machines. The tech has come a LONG way since then, but, almost all machines made in the last 20-30 years can still be competitive depending on the venue and the competency of the user. Will an Ace 250 find the same targets that a Nox, D2, and Legend find in mild ground or dry sand at the beach? 90% of the time, yes. It's that 10% we're fighting to get these days. That little extra depth, stability, tone/I.D., and/or processor speed to get those tough-to-find targets in worse than average ground. Having a higher end machine that can be adjusted to the conditions will sometimes get you that extra 10%. Naturally, experience on a machine is key, but, all things being equal, someone with the proper experience using the better machines will out perform the same experience with a lesser machine at certain venues. In some cases, it's much more than a 10% increase in finds, sometimes it will be virtually 0%. Will that same Ace 250 find the same nuggets that a GPZ 7000? Not a chance....more like a 90+% advantage for the GPZ. At a nail infested home site? The Ace may reverse those odds for an experienced user. As for your list on how to get good results........you need to match the site, with the machine, with an experienced detectorist to have the best success. It's not necessarily one more important than the other.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, midalake said:

I consider the platform and then the tones and nuisances,...  (emphasis mine)

That may be the best Freudian Slip I've ever seen on this website!  (Not picking on you, midalake as many of us -- including myself -- have done similar.)  It's just so appropriate in this case I had to highlight it.

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...