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Troubles With Simultaneous Multi-frequency (smf)


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I was in a Treasure Hunting Club meeting one night and someone asked “What’s the Purpose or Advantages of (Simultaneous) Multi-Frequency?”.  I went on to explain how different metal objects react to a specific frequency better than others.  Some (lower) go deeper and handle mineralized ground better, while others (higher) like small lower conductive targets such as gold.  He owned a Nokta Makro Anfibio MF, but can only choose one at a time.

So far, my experience hasn’t always been good.  In areas with a high concentration of Iron of various sizes and stages of degradation, which can ring anywhere on the VDI Scale, a single frequency Metal Detector excels.  I found the same thing in a trashy park, recently.  There were too many signals with so much noise, I had to run in a single frequency to quiet everything down.  Even then, I had to wiggle the coil and PULL a target out from the various tones around it.

Now, I’m not talking about the tried and true, Minelab BBS (17) and FBS (27) technologies.  They don’t seem to be plagued by these problems possibly due to the fact that the frequencies are more plentiful and closer together.  Neither have I had a problem, with Dual Frequency machines like the DFX and CZs.  Most likely because they have fewer frequencies that are farther apart.

These are just my educated guesses and not based on any technical data as I’m not “That Guy”.  I’m just a Dealer and end user. The ones I’m in reference to are the Equinox, Legend, and Apex where the majority of their frequencies vary by 5kHz. Walt

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one of my favorite quotes about the most recent SMFs=Equinox, Deus 2, Legend.....

"Long story short nobody needs to defend or hype any one of these machines. They are all very capable detectors. Anyone that can’t do well with one of these models needs to go back to detecting school, rather than blame the detector. We are fortunate to have not one, but three great options to choose from, all delivering good top tier performance."

I don't particularly like the detecting performance of the ACE Apex so I would not include it among those three listed.

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1 hour ago, Geotech said:

As mentioned 100 or so times on these forums, BBS & FBS are 2-frequency detectors, not 17 or 28.

So, are you saying that Mount Minelab touting that the Sovereign and Excalibur operate on 17 (something like 1.5 to 25 kHz) frequencies and 28 (1.5 to 100 kHz) for the Explorer platform was all Hype?

Walt

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What I miss is the ability to analyze each individual frequency separately while running in SMF mode… The V3i does this well.

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On 9/17/2022 at 2:16 AM, Jeff McClendon said:

one of my favorite quotes about the most recent SMFs=Equinox, Deus 2, Legend.....

"Long story short nobody needs to defend or hype any one of these machines. They are all very capable detectors. Anyone that can’t do well with one of these models needs to go back to detecting school, rather than blame the detector. We are fortunate to have not one, but three great options to choose from, all delivering good top tier performance."

I don't particularly like the detecting performance of the ACE Apex so I would not include it among those three listed.

I'm not blaming the detector (or my detecting skills), Jeff.  I’m just stating the facts as my experience sees them.  In some cases, SMF (regardless of make or model) is a hindrance and not an improvement. Walt

P.S.:  The Apex may not have all the filters and programmability of the other two, or three if you count the Dues (which I have never swung), but it’s still SMF.

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45 minutes ago, V3i/MXT Pro said:

What I miss is the ability to analyze each individual frequency separately while running in SMF mode… The V3i does this well.

I still think the V3i is the best advanced SMF detector ever made, primarily because of this ability.  The newer detectors all do their analyzing via a “black box” of secret algorithms while the V3i gives the power over to the user and lets the user decide.  For example, I love how you can identify multiple closely spaced targets by watching how the response of each frequency changes in all metal pinpoint mode as you slowly sweep the target.  Subsequent designs dumb this down and try to do everything within the “black box.” Good for beginner users who don’t care to bother to understand the underlying tech.  The V3i demands more from its user but the reward is worth it.   That said, my MXT is still a great performer and is single freq.
 

It was a sad day when White’s killed further development of the V3i.  

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24 minutes ago, Bohemia Miner said:

So, are you saying that Mount Minelab touting that the Sovereign and Excalibur operate on 17 (something like 1.5 to 25 kHz) frequencies and 28 (1.5 to 100 kHz) for the Explorer platform was all Hype?

It's an example of exceptional marketing.

MF has an inherent disadvantage in that it is, by necessity, a wideband system which is more susceptible to EMI. But with both SF & MF it depends on how well it's designed.

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20 minutes ago, Geotech said:

It's an example of exceptional marketing.

MF has an inherent disadvantage in that it is, by necessity, a wideband system which is more susceptible to EMI. But with both SF & MF it depends on how well it's designed.

Other than EMI susceptibility which is a problem for SMFs and some single freqs, the more recently made higher quality SMFs...Equinox, Legend and Deus 2 simply outperform the older SMFs and any single frequency detector on a wider variety of targets and target sizes, trash levels, trash types and especially for target identification accuracy all the way to the extreme depth of detection....where I hunt. If EMI is overwhelming, all three detectors have plenty of selectable single frequencies to choose from. I have owned every type of earlier SMF tech except for the Fishers. These newer detectors for me are simply better.....especially when the ground has more mineralization.

Hey, maybe I am just weird or have unique hunting scenarios.

All I can say is that all three fit almost all of my needs as if they were tailor made for me. Finds have quadrupled in quantity and quality and these detectors have easily paid for themselves except for Deus 2 but its my most recent purchase and its getting there.

 

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1 hour ago, V3i/MXT Pro said:

What I miss is the ability to analyze each individual frequency separately while running in SMF mode… The V3i does this well.

I didn't have the same problem with that one either.  It ran smooth.

 

Walt

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