Finally Minelab Take Responsibility For Screwing Up The GPX 6000 Speaker

[jasong]

Ok, took it out again with headphones and forced myself to walk around a barren field for a full 60 minutes so I could get a feel for any changes.

Good  news: It appears to be acting the same with speakers and with headphones now after the fix. So there has been an actual fix, and the fix does improve the performance with the speaker to be basically equivalent to that with headphones now. If you use the speaker, and have downtime to spare, I would get it done.

Also: the amount of times the detector loses stability when set on the ground seems reduced, though not eliminated. 

Bad news: There is still a general EMI problem with the detector. It seems location specific, and setting the detector on the ground seems to have some effect on it. It's either that or something with my detector is faulty - but I doubt it since the control box and the coil got a clean bill of health from the repair center, and the problems I observe have affected basically all other 6000's I've been around identically. note to Minelab: noise cancelling and headphones DO NOT help this problem (see attached vid).

• I turned it on and again it acted nicely for about 10 minutes. In fact, almost a totally silent, stable threshold, and probably better than it's ever been. At about 20 minutes it was getting slightly chattery, but still usable, so I started switching back and forth between headphones and speaker - no difference, good. I walked around, set it down a handful of times, still stable, just a bit chattery. I turned my phone on, waved it around the box, interfered, but the detector didn't lose stability after moving the phone away and turning it off again - good. 
• At about 30 minutes I got up to a top of a small hill and the chattering got to the point I would normally get annoyed. Tried switching between headphones and speaker, no discernable difference. So, the speaker is not causing this chatter, it's external EMI and/or bad shielding, and the speaker fix has seemed to work. Spent 10 minutes walking around, tried a few noise cancels, nothing got rid of the chatter, the EMI seemed to get worse with each noise cancel. I set the detector down and walked back to my truck for 5 minutes to get a drink and let the detector sit on the ground a bit.
• Picked it up and walked for 5 minutes and set it back down and it lost complete stability the second I set it on the ground. I messed around with it, tried the headphones, no difference. Tried noise cancels - no difference, sometimes worse. Picked it up and tried noise cancelling - no difference.

That's where I started filming here. This is to show that "noise cancelling and headphones" and the speaker "fix" still don't solve the 6000 EMI issues causing the 6000 to lose total stability. At this point the only thing to do is a reboot, and even then sometimes that doesn't fix it, the only thing that helps is leaving the area and going somewhere else.

This is on Auto+, silent threshold BTW. When it's working right, it close to silent, just some blips here and there.  So I know this detector can work great in some locations. This however, is not anywhere close to silent, and it's impossible to hear anything subtle when it does this.

You can see here how noise cancels not only don't help, but sometimes make the problem worse, no matter how many you do.

I believe the 6000 just has some general design issues - lack of shielding or something, that makes this detector way too suspectible to EMI in general. Also seems to have some issue with coupling to the ground and losing stability still. And also just has general EMI processing issues by the looks of it to me. 

Precision equipment like this needs to be able to operate both stable, as well as dependably in many different locations. It's just an overpriced toy IMO if you can't depend on it working where you need it, and have to spend all day listening to a cacophony of extraneous noise with a tool where the name of the game is picking out subtle, small signals that get completely washed out by EMI like this. If this is a toy, then price it like a toy. If it's precision, professional equipment, Minelab fix it right and make it work.

*edit: the more I think about this, the more I think there is some potential correlation to elevation too.

[phrunt]

I wonder if you just have locations with EMI the detector itself just can not handle, a good test would have been having the DD coil on it and seeing how it did in that area I guess as that might eliminate it being a detector problem and more the mono coil just struggling with the EMI in the area.

I've never been a fan of PI's in an EMI environment especially with mono coils, my earlier model GPX's were pointless in areas with EMI that the GPZ and even QED operated perfectly fine in and it seems the 6000 is no different to earlier GPX's in that way.   Places I can use my GPZ on maximum gain even with a big coil and it work perfectly fine the GPX 6000 is an unstable mess.

It sounds like the EMI "fix" has done what it was intended to do and that's make the speaker work as well as headphones for stability not generating it's own EMI but it's certainly not a fix for EMI in general.  I'm OK with that, I'm happy I'll be able to use the speaker and ditch the stupid Torus thing.

It's interesting that in the US, Australia and NZ the included coils are the 11" and 14" DD, where as in Africa they get the 11" and 17", no DD for them.  I wonder if that decision was because they don't have as many EMI issues there?

I don't mind using the DD coil, it's sensitivity is still fantastic, I'd just prefer a different size DD than that big round sucker.

I guess at this point Jason it's best you just get rid of the 6000, you've tried everything possible now, you'll take a hit financially because of it though which sucks.  Hopefully the Axiom becomes the alternative for you and at least you guys can get it at a great price over there.  In saying that as least you've got the best GPZ combination you can possibly get so performance wise you're not missing much if anything at all, you've just got the weight to deal with.

With the Torus and Coiltek coils I was happy enough overall with the stability of my GPX knowing it's a PI and the limitations that brings with EMI, and it seems my replacement 11" coil has improved the stability of that coil so if I can just use the speaker instead of the Torus I'm satisfied with the GPX, I do regret buying it and if I had my time all over again I certainly wouldn't waste my money on it but now I've got it and a couple of aftermarket coils for it I'll stick with it, it will not be my primary detector that's for sure but I'll use it sometimes and it's great for locations the GPZ is too big bulky and heavy to take like bike rides or big hikes.  I don't think it's better than the GPZ for anything other than portability and the GPZ is noticeably deeper, even on our small gold around here, but I'm lucky to have a good range of coils for my GPZ, if I was using the stock GPZ coil I'd prefer putting up with using the 6000 for the gold we have around here.

Hopefully the courier drops my 6000 off today, if not it will be Tuesday as I've just been told Monday is a public holiday 😞

[Northeast]

1 hour ago, jasong said:

silent threshold BTW.

Blimey, that level of noise on silent threshold is crazy!  Never had anything like that here out in the field except right under power lines.  

And the noise at 2.30 mins on your vid is like if I turned mine on inside my house  😳

I'm glad your speaker issue is fixed but yes, either your detector has some other sort of EMI issue or the EMI in your areas and the USA in general is just next level! 

42 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I don't mind using the DD coil, it's sensitivity is still fantastic, I'd just prefer a different size DD than that big round sucker.

Absolutely, a better size coil will make a big difference in the DD functions usability.   I like the function on the GPX 6000 but hate the coil size.   Garrett obviously worked this out pretty quick to be providing a couple of different DD size options on the Axiom right out of the gate!  

[jasong]

Well Simon, the big thing for me in the 6000 vs GPZ w/small coil paradigm is that the GPZ itself still just weighs a lot, as in the entire unit from the control box to shaft to coils. It's torn up my elbow and caused permanent damage. And for that reason, to prevent further damage, I only use it as a patch/wash machine where I work nice and slow. 

It's not the weight holding it up, it's the back and forth start/stop/start/stop when I'm exploring and covering a lot of ground that tears my tendons up. It's just the raw inertia of having to stop and start the swing so often that does the damage. 

You and I detect totally differently. I am totally alone, I don't have veterans giving me pointy fingers, I have to find 100% of the places I detect on my own. Further, I'm working places that often lack any kind of written history, and often lack any kind of old timers workings to follow. The amount of ground one has to cover to do that is larger than most would understand until they find themselves in the same situation - and most people give up detecting at that point.

I have a good reason to want the 6000 to work as it should. But you are right, the minute I can go with an Axiom instead, this thing is going on Ebay and I'm never looking back. 

[jasong]

7 minutes ago, Northeast said:

Blimey, that level of noise on silent threshold is crazy!  Never had anything like that here out in the field except right under power lines.  

And the noise at 2.30 mins on your vid is like if I turned mine on inside my house  😳

I'm glad your speaker issue is fixed but yes, either your detector has some other sort of EMI issue or the EMI in your areas and the USA in general is just next level! 

Absolutely, a better size coil will make a big difference in the DD functions usability.   I like the function on the GPX 6000 but hate the coil size.   Garrett obviously worked this out pretty quick to be providing a couple of different DD size options on the Axiom right out of the gate!  

Unfortunately, while I don't really want to show a lot of the ground I work since people monitor this forum specifically to locate places people are hunting, the vegetation and rocks in most of them render the use of the larger DD almost totally infeasible in many problematic areas.

I'm going to give a smaller DD a try though if someone comes out with one before the Axiom.

Yeah, some parts of the US are just really EMI-prone. Oddly though, the places I have the worst problems don't seem to be the closest to the big population centers, but rural. And almost all, without exception, at much higher elevations compared to Arizona and Nevada. In terms of raw elevation above sea level, most of the flat prairies here are higher than the tops of the mountains in Arizona, and that isn't even getting up into the mountains here yet where I often detect, just the high plains. I can't help but suspect elevation is playing some part in this.

[Northeast]

6 minutes ago, jasong said:

I can't help but suspect elevation is playing some part in this.

That is certainly intriguing.  Phrunt has some fairly decent hills in his area.  I do too actually but I never go up there with a detector. 

Perhaps it is just closer to our intergalactic visitors 😂

[phrunt]

Maybe it's something to do with your military and funky technology they use, we don't have a military, well we do but a team of 5 or so guys isn't going to really generate much EMI.

 

[jasong]

@Northeast Haha could be, could be...

Seems less height, and more raw elevation above sea level. Like, I live right under the top of Australia's highest point in terms of equivalent elevation above sea level, and then our mountains go up another 6-7000 ft above that. Granted, while I'm intentionally vague at what elevations I work for privacy, I'm not detecting at 13,000ft though, but I have come somewhat close. 

I was at the top of mountains in AZ last winter without much problems, just minor annoyances, but they top out at like 5-6,000ft total above sea level, and that isn't even as high as much of our high plains areas here. I wonder if there are strange EMI affects due to thinning atmosphere/increased sun and other space noise not being filtered out past certain elevations?

29 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Maybe it's something to do with your military and funky technology they use, we don't have a military, well we do but a team of 5 or so guys isn't going to really generate much EMI.

 

Some of that stuff definitely puts out interference, they messed with my GPZ often. But I would know it - like ok Blackhawks in formation a mile away, troop transport above me. But where I'm at now, there isn't much in the way of military. I mean, we do have a large nuclear missile base in Cheyenne, and of course NORAD down in Colorado, and undoubtedly some hidden silos around, but no large personel/equipment bases nearby like are common in AZ, NV, and CA. 

[Jeff McClendon]

I have owned two different GPX 6000s and both acted just like Jasong’s. I never got the chance to use mine at lower elevations or on flatter land with sparse vegetation. All of the areas I hunted were between 5,000 and 10,000 feet elevation and miles away from any towns much less larger cities. I always used the stock headphones. The 11” mono was unusable due to the behavior shown in Jasong’s video and the 14” DD while quiet, was totally inappropriate for the terrain and vegetation. 

[Malleeboy]

Jason Why don't You borrow another 6000 and same coil and take it out and do a side by side test with the same settings and see what happens.  Minelab could have stuffed something when they had it apart. 

All the best . Mike