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Garrett Axiom Software Update Gets A Little More Depth And Au For Us


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3 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Axiom mono coils are edge sensitive, the Bullseye DD is center sensitive. The mono is similar to how other mono coils work, hottest near the winding, but the DD is not like other DD coils, more like a concentric with extra ground canceling capability. I already mentioned this earlier in the thread. I’ll be doing a more detailed write up on the coils soon.

Thanks.... Cant wait to read what you think.

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1 hour ago, Gerry in Idaho said:

I've found only 3 small dink nuggets the 1st day I used it on an old dink patch.  The Mono coil worked like the Monos on my Minelabs.  Once I learned how sensitive the Axiom PI was, I realized it could hold it's own at that price point. To me the task was accomplished as the detector proved to have better sensitivity to smaller nuggets than most PIs I've used in previous yrs and certainly better than any other Garrett PI.

My next task, I wanted to try and see how well the Axiom performed on specimen gold.  After all many older PIs don't do as well on various kinds of specimens. The gold I find is not small nor do I worry about using the coil edge.  These bigger chunks are easy to spot. 

Sorry for not being able to rate the coil edge.  But the Mono runs like a Mono should and I expected for the short time I hunted dinks.

Appreciate your thoughts Gerry... Those are some strange looking chunks you're into up there.

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Maybe I`ve missed this in a past post but are the Axiom coils chipped? In regards to the software upgrade that is producing a more sensitive Axiom, I wonder if Garret would consider an even more sensitive software upgrade to suit our land downunder where we don`t have the amount of EMI trouble the US has that influences a detectors stability adversely. 

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Just now, Norvic said:

Maybe I`ve missed this in a past post but are the Axiom coils chipped?

No chip Norvic 🙂 Maybe good things will come for the Axiom!

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8 hours ago, Norvic said:

Maybe I`ve missed this in a past post but are the Axiom coils chipped? In regards to the software upgrade that is producing a more sensitive Axiom, I wonder if Garret would consider an even more sensitive software upgrade to suit our land downunder where we don`t have the amount of EMI trouble the US has that influences a detectors stability adversely. 

The machine is at the limits of the hardware now. I used the Axiom extensively in Oz, and in my opinion there would be no benefit to Oz users in pushing anything higher, except to introduce noise across the board. The coils are not chipped, and my hope is for extensive support by third party coil manufacturers.

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On 11/2/2022 at 12:14 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

I suspect people will go mono just because that’s what people use these days, but the DD is not to be overlooked for those who really want to get the best out of the Axiom. You get the added benefit of iron disc with the DD, although I recommend that feature only for use on mild ground.

Steve - can you elaborate on this statement (or point me to where you previously discussed it).  My concern is that hot ground is what drives US relic hunters to PI and PI relic hunters take advantage of the iron disc built into the favored GPX 4K/5K PI platforms.  If Axiom iron disc and hot ground do not mix well for whatever reason, then that would temper enthusiam for annoiting Axiom the new preferred PI relic hunting platform over the ML GPX 4K/5K.  Thanks for any additional insight you can provide.

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21 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Steve - can you elaborate on this statement (or point me to where you previously discussed it).  My concern is that hot ground is what drives US relic hunters to PI and PI relic hunters take advantage of the iron disc built into the favored GPX 4K/5K PI platforms.  If Axiom iron disc and hot ground do not mix well for whatever reason, then that would temper enthusiam for annoiting Axiom the new preferred PI relic hunting platform over the ML GPX 4K/5K.  Thanks for any additional insight you can provide.

All discrimination, VLF or PI, becomes less accurate as you add iron mineralization to the ground. The more iron mineralization, the more chance the iron predominates, and causes a non-ferrous target to be identified as ferrous. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Axiom, and is common to all metal detectors.

So how much do you want to gamble, and what's it worth to you? My comment is aimed primarily at gold prospectors. Missing gold nuggets is expensive. A bullet maybe less so. So part of it depends on what you are looking for. Part also depends on the operator having some savvy in judging the target signal. Weak signals are more likely to go wrong than strong signals.

I would add exactly the same caveat to anyone using a Minelab PI detector, as I have seen them call 1/2 oz nuggets sitting on the surface a ferrous target. The same really applies to all the VLF users that have no idea how many of those ferrous targets they passed on are really not ferrous at all. As bad as VLF discrimination is in bad ground, PI is even worse. Discrimination Sucks.

Tip - those guys relying heavily on Minelab PI discrimination in highly mineralized ground are guys that are leaving good targets for others to dig. You never know what you missed until you dig it, and as long as any targets remain to be dug, good finds remain to be found.

 

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I would class discrim in the category of "better to have it and not need it than it is to need it and not have it". With the GPX's I never used it because I never used DD's and didn't want to hike around with one just on the chance I might hit trash, then stop and change coils, then change back. But with the hybrid DD/CC coil, discrim may be more feasible to use when needed if it's also more feasible to run with this coil instead of a mono more often.

Now that I have a working 6000, the only two things that still make me potentially want an Axiom right now are the stock coils and the potential for future experimental aftermarket coils that perform better than the heavily controlled ML aftermarket coils. And the apparant better EMI handling. For as long as Steve has been asking for lighter, more ergonomic detectors, I've been asking for better signal processing/noise reduction with both EMI and ground with modern electronics - a perfect detector IMO makes no noise on anything but a target - and detectors have always been 10 years (or more) behind other modern electronics with signal processing until lately so I'm glad to see concentration there.

Steve, any chance you'd send one of these hybrid DD's to Strick to x ray so we can all get a look at the actual wiring configuration? Might give 3rd parties an early start at experimenting with designs. Or is it still kind of confidential?

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On 11/2/2022 at 9:14 AM, Steve Herschbach said:

On my recent trip to Australia a group of us visited some super pounded locations. All that’s left are tiny bits. The other people all ran the 11” mono because these days everyone chooses mono. I ran the 11” DD almost exclusively, just to be different. The mono coils you need to work the edges to get the smallest nuggets; nosing with the forward edge works well. The DD is hottest in the center, so benefits most from methodical overlapping. People like the mono as the edge helps with pinpointing, but frankly I was able to eyeball the coil center just as well to nail targets with the DD, and grew to enjoy it’s quieter operation in bad ground versus the mono. I suspect people will go mono just because that’s what people use these days, but the DD is not to be overlooked for those who really want to get the best out of the Axiom. You get the added benefit of iron disc with the DD, although I recommend that feature only for use on mild ground.

These nuggets (flakes) were found by the group, ten of mine with 11” DD along right edge (I forgot I had a couple more in another vial) and the rest by others running the 11” mono. The smallest weighed 0.023 gram. Going by that and looking at rest, it should be obvious 0.05 - 0.1 gram gold is no problem at all for Axiom, and results smaller than that quite possible for users well tuned for hunting tiny bits. Half the people had never found gold with a detector before, yet all found at least a couple bits.

I’ve been trying for a smaller mono for those after the smaller gold, since the 7x11 mono is very good, but still not ideal for the smallest gold. The DD with its hot 4x5 center zone is almost like hunting with a small mono, once you get used to ignoring the less sensitive outer regions of the coil. The main issue there is the inability to get the hot zone in close to a rock or root.

DC7B4217-2D02-43B3-BF8D-4C7EAE1BEA23.jpeg

The photo below shows the approximate size and location of the “hot zone” for small targets with 11” Bullseye DD coil i.e. targets under a gram. As nuggets get larger the entire coil surface takes over, but the most “punch” will still be in center area.

A9956DB3-0A89-4F39-B204-5529F81120DC.jpeg

So what did they do to make DD coils have a Concentric mag profile.... Cant say Ive seen this before.

I have an Axiom on order and do plan to use it with my GPZ.... Not hoping it will replace it. I see me trying the disc in some trashy areas that are pretty unhuntable. But like you said, Im sure the 3rd party coil mfg'rs will be making their versions of coils for the Axiom.

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