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Manticore Discrimination Capabilities


PSPR

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To discriminate aluminum trash in many of the places I hunt, both the D2 and the Equinox offer some mechanisms. On the D2 the depth "gauge" is fairly good, the XY screen helps, and in full tones the depth is illustrated by signal strength. Lifting the coil is how I find gold with either, gold will disappear while a pull tab will continue to assert itself ūüėŹ Relics are going to be deeper.

Same applies to the Equinox, except it's a bit more limited. I just watch the depth gauge and lift. I usually run in "all metal" all the time on both. Again relics are deeper.

I fear the same for the M-core, it's not gonna have any magical qualities. ūü§Ē Apparently it incorporates stuff from previous higher end machines like the CTX, which is before my time.

This is more of a comparison topic, but I'm responding to the last few posts.

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Thank, GB.  Yeah, I didn't watch close enough to realize he was using a Deus 1 I was just excited to see someone at least claiming to be able to recognize pull tabs.

Thanks for the additional information on the Manticore, that's the sort of stuff I'm looking for.  Minelab seems to release some info then wait a month then release some more then wait a month.......  I'm hoping by the end of November they have a release date for us but I may be dreaming.

I looked around a little more this evening and found three other videos that use the Nox and offer up some possible methods to identify pull tabs, caps and trash.  These guys don't seem to be experts but they seem to have a couple good ideas they've probably gotten from others that might help without giving up on the gold.  Maybe these are similar to the methods you are already using, GB. 

When I do get a Manticore shipped to me I'll be experimenting with these ideas as I learn the Manticore.  Maybe the target trace will provide more info than I'm currently expecting with that regard.  Here are the videos.  The third video doesn't get to the ID part until about 6:07.

 

 

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What everyone has said so far...the technology is not there yet to discriminate out aluminum tabs. Detecting is a mental game. If you go out detecting and tell yourself I'm going to not dig aluminum today.....just gold and silver..and just to prove it to myself I'm going to dig what I know are pieces of aluminum...so I dig 10 targets that I thought were aluminum before I even dug them.. and of course the odds were in my favor because there is way more aluminum in the environment then there is gold...so you tell yourself... see I'm right I'm not digging that stuff...so you end up dig mostly quarters, dimes and memorial pennies maybe you get lucky once in a while and get a silver ring...and you wonder why you never get any gold...

Two quick examples...

1. On a recent prospecting trip I dug what sounded like a square nail with my 6000. I was dead tired but dug it anyways...turned out to be a nice heart shaped nugget right at 3 grams. 

2. On a recent beach hunt I got a scratchy 8 on the equinox. Thats in the beaver tail/ foil range..I was reluctant but dug it anyways and it turned out to be a nice gold pendant. 

Sometimes your better off digging what you don't know then what you know. 

strick 

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44 minutes ago, strick said:

What everyone has said so far...the technology is not there yet to discriminate out aluminum tabs. Detecting is a mental game. If you go out detecting and tell yourself I'm going to not dig aluminum today.....just gold and silver..and just to prove it to myself I'm going to dig what I know are pieces of aluminum...so I dig 10 targets that I thought were aluminum before I even dug them.. and of course the odds were in my favor because there is way more aluminum in the environment then there is gold...so you tell yourself... see I'm right I'm not digging that stuff...so you end up dig mostly quarters, dimes and memorial pennies maybe you get lucky once in a while and get a silver ring...and you wonder why you never get any gold...

Two quick examples...

1. On a recent prospecting trip I dug what sounded like a square nail with my 6000. I was dead tired but dug it anyways...turned out to be a nice heart shaped nugget right at 3 grams. 

2. On a recent beach hunt I got a scratchy 8 on the equinox. Thats in the beaver tail/ foil range..I was reluctant but dug it anyways and it turned out to be a nice gold pendant. 

Sometimes your better off digging what you don't know then what you know. 

strick 

I get you point, strick.  While everything you say is true, I think it will depend upon the location.  Some places are not suitable to dig dozens of holes while other places, like the beach, it is just a matter of putting in the effort to scoop the targets.

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10 hours ago, PSPR said:

Thank, GB.

You're welcome.  I am trying to be helpful but sometimes I go a bit deep in my 'critiques'.  I don't watch hardly any detecting videos anymore.  It's kind of like the needle in a haystack situation where you have to wade through so many (and they usually last 15-20 minutes each) to find one that is worthwhile (for what I'm interested in).

My dig/no tricks are only for USA nickels, not jewelry.  I only use them when the primary signal strength is 3 bars or less, which depending upon soil moisture is 4-5 inches or less in my sites.  As coins get deeper the dTID spreads out which is which leads to my signal strength limit.

I used to be less selective, particularly when learning a new detector (and from the sidebar you can see I've done a lot of that.¬† ūüėĀ)¬† I can add a bit more in agreement with what strick just posted.¬† Since I've concentrated on old coin hunting (which is what gets me excited, not jewelry) and gotten more selective in the dTID ranges I dig, my gold jewelry count has pretty much dropped to zero.¬† I still find silver jewelry (which my wife prefers anyway) because unless small, that shows up 20 and above on the Eqx (approx. zinc pennies and above).

My old-coin selection criteria only apply to sites which were first frequented in the 20th Century.  If 19th Century, small coins (both composition 3 centers, silver 5 centers, gold coins) are possible I dig everything above 6 (so I will notice the nickel 5 cent piece in the 7-9 dTID region).  Indian Head cents can fall in the grey zone at the zinc penny edge and I've probably missed a few of those with my strict cutoff (dig 20, don't dig 19).  If I think IHC's are likely I'll often drop that to dig 19, but even then I'll be missing the 12% nickel (pre-1865) version.

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1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

You're welcome.  I am trying to be helpful but sometimes I go a bit deep in my 'critiques'.  I don't watch hardly any detecting videos anymore.  It's kind of like the needle in a haystack situation where you have to wade through so many (and they usually last 15-20 minutes each) to find one that is worthwhile (for what I'm interested in).

My dig/no tricks are only for USA nickels, not jewelry.  I only use them when the primary signal strength is 3 bars or less, which depending upon soil moisture is 4-5 inches or less in my sites.  As coins get deeper the dTID spreads out which is which leads to my signal strength limit.

I used to be less selective, particularly when learning a new detector (and from the sidebar you can see I've done a lot of that.¬† ūüėĀ)¬† I can add a bit more in agreement with what strick just posted.¬† Since I've concentrated on old coin hunting (which is what gets me excited, not jewelry) and gotten more selective in the dTID ranges I dig, my gold jewelry count has pretty much dropped to zero.¬† I still find silver jewelry (which my wife prefers anyway) because unless small, that shows up 20 and above on the Eqx (approx. zinc pennies and above).

My old-coin selection criteria only apply to sites which were first frequented in the 20th Century.  If 19th Century, small coins (both composition 3 centers, silver 5 centers, gold coins) are possible I dig everything above 6 (so I will notice the nickel 5 cent piece in the 7-9 dTID region).  Indian Head cents can fall in the grey zone at the zinc penny edge and I've probably missed a few of those with my strict cutoff (dig 20, don't dig 19).  If I think IHC's are likely I'll often drop that to dig 19, but even then I'll be missing the 12% nickel (pre-1865) version.

Thanks again, GB.  I don't mind hunting coins.  Silver and gold coins are great.  I don't even mind digging up clad.

Here in Texas there is a lot of history.  But the Texas Historical Commission thinks they own everything not on private property.  They even got a law passed that anything over 100 years old dug up in a park, etc. is theirs.  I'm not sure how they enforce that.  Also, the law here says state parks are off limits but state property that is not a park or historical site is OK.  Rivers and streams seem to be one of the most promising state properties to hunt.   Most cities and towns let you hunt their parks, too, although you run into people now and then who don't like it.  Lake beaches are also open so long as it isn't in a state park.

I think I'm going to have to figure out how to cultivate some good private properties if I am going to metal detect consistently.  I think the trend is to search on private property.  

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I do not expect the Manticore  to be able to 100% positively identify a pull tab from  a gold or silver ring. 

I believe the increase in the  ID numbers (0 to 99), will be a tremendous asset, compared to the already great Equinox.

I also believe the 2D screen will  give a rough idea as to the shape of the target.

Those 2 features alone,  should be enough information to differentiate a pull tab from a ring or coin SOME of the time.
But I do not expect it to magically make digging a bad target obsolete. 

I suppose its all about realistic expectations with the information that the 2D screen provides.

If the 2D screen provides useful information as to the shape of an target, I believe we will have another great product from Minelab!

 

 

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Is the 2D feature suppose to outline the physical shape of a target?

I was under the impression it is more of a plot based on conductivity over several passes of the coil. Akin to the Whites Spectrograph.

Garrett had size imaging 20+ years ago but it used a special coil. A good ear can do that on a modern detector by the proportional audio response.

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10 minutes ago, JCR said:

Is the 2D feature suppose to outline the physical shape of a target?

I was under the impression it is more of a plot based on conductivity over several passes of the coil. Akin to the Whites Spectrograph.

Garrett had size imaging 20+ years ago but it used a special coil. A good ear can do that on a modern detector by the proportional audio response.

What I'd seen so far suggests that the 2D screen is meant to show what sort of ferrous vs conductivity the target has, with the top/bottom being to allow you to see what type of ferrous target it is (small nails vs deep iron) and the middle of the screen being less/non-ferrous 'good' targets.  

The cleaner/purer the signal then the tighter the blob on the screen.  

In a few of the videos shown though the demonstrated 'good' target has been something like a silver coin which shows a nice tight round blob, so I guess some folk have taken that to mean it shows target shape.  Likewise a rusty nail with a mix of solid iron and rusty bits has a more stretched TID range and has been showing on the demos as an elongated blob.

I'm not expecting any real-world shape indicator from the Manticore myself.

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