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Request For Experienced Opinions On Detectors With 2-d Graphics


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With the soon-to-be-released Manticore (maybe) about ready to take over this site's discussions, I'm curious to get some educated opinions about its forerunners in graphics capability.  I'm pretty sure I know what's been revealed so far about that detector from the limited number of (emphasize) quality videos done in September in Europe.  But many here have experience with current and former models with related readouts.

1) What detector(s) with graphics readout have you owned?  Please give at least a rough description of what the graphics showed.

2) Please describe how this detector(s) improved your detecting experience.  Also helpful if you'll describe your type of detecting (coins, relics, jewelry) and type of sites (beach, strength of mineralization).  Did the detector(s) actually give you useful capabilities that other detectors that you've used -- without graphics -- couldn't?  (I mean out-performed in some way.)

3) What were the shortcomings of this detector(s)?

4) Is this detector(s) still in use by you, and if so, where does it rank/rate in your arsenal?

Anything else you can add that would be helpful is welcome.  Although I don't want to discourage valuable discussion, I'd rather not read second hand info (my friend had one..., I read on a forum that...).  Thanks.

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On 11/11/2022 at 10:02 AM, GB_Amateur said:

With the soon-to-be-released Manticore (maybe) about ready to take over this site's discussions, I'm curious to get some educated opinions about its forerunners in graphics capability.  I'm pretty sure I know what's been revealed so far about that detector from the limited number of (emphasize) quality videos done in September in Europe.  But many here have experience with current and former models with related readouts.

1) What detector(s) with graphics readout have you owned?  Please give at least a rough description of what the graphics showed.

2) Please describe how this detector(s) improved your detecting experience.  Also helpful if you'll describe your type of detecting (coins, relics, jewelry) and type of sites (beach, strength of mineralization).  Did the detector(s) actually give you useful capabilities that other detectors that you've used -- without graphics -- couldn't?  (I mean out-performed in some way.)

3) What were the shortcomings of this detector(s)?

4) Is this detector(s) still in use by you, and if so, where does it rank/rate in your arsenal?

Anything else you can add that would be helpful is welcome.  Although I don't want to discourage valuable discussion, I'd rather not read second hand info (my friend had one..., I read on a forum that...).  Thanks.

Hey there GB,

Clarification of audience is needed. Helpful to whom?  You?  Or is this rhetorical to give us something to churn on while it is cold outside?  (i'm ok with that, just asking)

When referring to graphics, are you referring to a display that shows like graphical battery levels? Mineralization levels? Probable Depth?  Settings and so on?  Or is this in reference to TARGET ID Display specifically?

Enquiring minds await.  

 

UtahRich -

 

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1 hour ago, UtahRich said:

When referring to graphics, are you referring to a display that shows like graphical battery levels? Mineralization levels? Probable Depth?  Settings and so on?  Or is this in reference to TARGET ID Display specifically?

Thanks for indicating why there's a dearth of responses so far.  I'm specifically asking about 2-dimensional target graphics such as are on the White's V3i, several Minelab multifrequency detectors (FBS and FBS2), and apparently now the Deus 2.

I know there are people here who have used those detectors quite a bit.  There's no requirement that this feature be used, of course, but I'm sure many have at least given it a chance.  My motivation is to try and put the upcoming Manticore Ferrous-Conductivity plot in perspective.

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The Deus 1 also has the option of displaying a Polar plot ( of target ID vs. amplitude ):

http://www.amdtt.it/2013/01/deus-analisi-delle-funzioni-segrete-della-versione-2-0/

And there's also the two AKA Signum machines, which are MF and have some 2D graphical capability.
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Hey GB,

The only one I'm familiar with, and use, is the Deus 2 "XY" display. Here's is the page that sorta describes how it works:

174281808_SmartSelect_20221113_185248_AdobeAcrobat.thumb.jpg.a01620a4aa4cb4329f11370e94544731.jpg

I'm not an engineer, but do use it on a couple of programs, my General program for relic hunting, and a beach program I created. I still go by tone preferring it to any display.

The graphic does not illustrate shape, it indicates type of metal and depth; the longer the line the closer it is to the surface. The direction it "leans" is key, but mostly you look for how straight the line is, apparently an indication of "purity". The tighter the ellipse, the purer the metal.

I think the diagram provided is a bit misleading. A small, deep item of pure "whatever" usually appears as a very short blip right down the center line, and a big iron object on top can cause a big square that encompasses the display in all quadrants. Coins and buttons are generally a straight line going from NF to NF, again indicating both depth and purity by respectively how long the line is, and how tight. The straighter the better!

The "rule of thumb" is seeing how "messy" the ellipse gets if an impure or "rejected" metal is discovered.

I think it helps me more than the Deus 2 Horseshoe display, which I can pretty safely say is not as good as the Equinox depth indicator. I'll pretty much dig anything thay displays a tighter and straighter ellipse in the NF quadrants. Or not. 🤣

Thus far the the Deus 2 is proving to be more like a "precision instrument" than my Equinox, but again more by feel and its obvious major attribute, lighter weight.

I was a little intimidated by the professorial request 😀, what's my grade? 🤔

 

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2 hours ago, F350Platinum said:

The only one I'm familiar with, and use, is the Deus 2 "XY" display. Here's is the page that sorta describes how it works:

Thanks.  Chase posted that very snippet from the manual in the last couple days.  What I don't see in either post (maybe I overlooked it) is what exactly the two axes are.  The oscilloscope analogy helps a bit (see Lissajous on Wikipedia).  But I'd like to know what the two inputs are that are being represented.  (Let's wake up @Chase Goldman and see if he'll delve further.  😁)

I like the signal strength info on this XP plot -- nice additional clue.

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  • The title was changed to Request For Experienced Opinions On Detectors With 2-d Graphics

I am one of the detectorists..who prefer detectors that display not only VDI targets..but also show some graphic information..regarding the signal from the detected object... such a graphic display of the signal/signagraph, spectrograph or hodograph has, for example, Whites Spectra V3 detectors, Aka Signum and the new Aka Intronik as well as my favorite detectors *****Rutus Alter 71 and the new multi-frequency detector Rutus Atrex...

One more thing needs to be said here... and that is that modern multi-frequency detectors can already give accurate VDI of targets and the correct graphic signal on various conductive targets - this means that deep low-conductivity targets these detectors will display exactly the actual zone of low-conductivity targets and with accurate VDI of the target as well deep in the mineralized terrain.. and medium-conductive and highly-conductive targets are also shown with very accurate VDI of medium and high conductors - and this enables very effectively only targets with VDI that we want to dig...

I will post the Rutus Atrex test that I did with my colleague Prymek7 on his mineralized mountain test field...

...during this test of the Rutus Atrex multi-frequency detector, monitor not only the VDI of the target, but also the quality of the graphic representation and signal of the target on the hodograph.and ...turn on the subtitles...!!!

...at minute 1:55 in the video, a low-conductivity target is tested..

 

 

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Not sure I'd call myself an experienced user, but I've played around with the V3i's Polar Plot, the Deus XY screen and Minelab's Target Trace.

Deus XY screen: F350's graphic does a good job of explaining how it works. I tried the XY screen for a while on my original Deus and found that it worked OK for shallow targets most of the time, but its usefulness fell off quickly on deeper targets. You could also be fooled on shallow targets with ferrous nearby. I didn't trust it enough to let it play any major role in my dig/don't dig decision, so I eventually went back to using the standard horseshoe. 

Minelab Target Trace: I found this feature useful. The reason being, you could quickly see some extra info at a glance without the need to push any buttons to go to different screens, and you still got all of the standard info on that same screen. You could see a smear when two targets of different conductivity were beneath the coil, or a clearly defined dot building if you had something like a coin in cleaner ground. At a glance, you could see where the target is hitting in relation to the FE & CO position on the screen, along with more info letting you know when multiple targets were beneath the coil.

V3i Spectragraph/Polar Plot: I found the Spectragraph to be a useful feature. When you got 3 clearly defined single bars, good chance it was a coin or some other good target. When you pulled the trigger back, you could see which frequency hit the hardest. Again, useful info. Pushing the trigger forward, you'd get what they called the Polar Plot. To be fair, I rarely used this feature. By this time I usually had enough info to make my dig/don't dig decision and didn't see any need to analyze any further.

Of the 3 detectors I used with 2D graphic info, I found the Minelab Target Trace to be the most useful. Although all provided useful info that may influence my decision slightly, none of them trumped my #1 dig/don't dig influencer: Tone. All of these new bells and whistles are cool, but when it comes right down to it, I still rely heavily on the same thing that I've been relying on since starting this hobby decades ago. Tone is still king IMHO.

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28 minutes ago, EL NINO77 said:

I will post the Rutusa Atrex test that I did with my colleague Prymek7 on his mineralized mountain test field...

...during this test of the Rutus Atrex multi-frequency detector, monitor not only the VDI of the target, but also the quality of the graphic representation and signal of the target on the hodograph.

Good video for the audio performance but I wasn't able to get much from the screen other than VDI numbers.  Any chance of a closeup (still shot would be fine by me) showing us what target graphical info is there?

28 minutes ago, Rattlehead said:

All of these new bells and whistles are cool, but when it comes right down to it, I still rely heavily on the same thing that I've been relying on since starting this hobby decades ago. Tone is still king IMHO.

Honest answer.  (The rest of it was helpful, too.)  I just don't happen to be amongst those of you who grew up relying on tonal richness and haven't been able so far to learn it.  Graphs OTOH, I love 'em!  But I get it -- use what you know works for you.  You don't need to learn a new technique (especially those with a long learning curve) if the ones you already have work.

BTW, the 'experience' I mentioned doesn't mean 'expert'.  The few of you who have answered so far are all experienced to some level, and your posts are providing some of the things I was hoping to read.

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