XP Orx, Garrett Apex, Nokta Legend Target ID Accuracy

[Rick N. MI]

Jeff, how do set up the Equinox & Legend in heavy iron to reduce the iron falsing? Do you turn up iron bias? I've always ran mine F2 0. I turn the sensitivity down but there is still a lot of falsing. I guess I should use iron bias sometimes. With the Equinox I always hunt in 2 tone with tone break at 1 sometimes to 11. Beach & water tone break 0. I've never used notching. I was wondering if notching out iron helps with falsing.

I'm liking my AT Gold I picked up and I got a Nel Superfly. Separation is surprisingly good. It came with 8.5x11 coil I don't care for much. It's heavy. I'll be adding 5x8 and Viper 6x11.

My detectors are:

Equinox 800, Legend, Orx, F19 coming, AT Gold, Tejon, Vaquaro & Gold Kruzer

[Jeff McClendon]

Ken, all I can say is high magnetite from my experience means use a high quality SMF detector that is effective in magnetite at least. If that doesn't help its time for a basic PI and dig it all.

The video I posted in this topic and one other one that I made a few years ago clearly show that all SMF tech is not equal. It's not even close and at least in my area, magnetite effective SMF tech like what is in the Equinox, Deus 2 and the Legend will out perform single frequency no matter what single frequency is chosen both for target ID accuracy and depth. Saying all of that doesn't mean that this is the case everywhere.

I already have some targets in dirt filled tubes. That way I can control their depth and retrieve them or change them out. I try not too if I can help it so the dirt has a chance to stratify and be undisturbed for awhile.

[Jeff McClendon]

1 hour ago, Rick N. MI said:

Jeff, how do set up the Equinox & Legend in heavy iron to reduce the iron falsing? Do you turn up iron bias? I've always ran mine F2 0. I turn the sensitivity down but there is still a lot of falsing. I guess I should use iron bias sometimes. With the Equinox I always hunt in 2 tone with tone break at 1 sometimes to 11. Beach & water tone break 0. I've never used notching. I was wondering if notching out iron helps with falsing.

I'm liking my AT Gold I picked up and I got a Nel Superfly. Separation is surprisingly good. It came with 8.5x11 coil I don't care for much. It's heavy. I'll be adding 5x8 and Viper 6x11.

My detectors are:

Equinox 800, Legend, Orx, F19 coming, AT Gold, Tejon, Vaquaro & Gold Kruzer

Hi Rick,

The only times I turn up F2 iron bias on the Equinox much above zero are when I am trying to avoid lots of bottle caps and when I am in a sparsely targeted area but most of the trash targets are iron. The rest of the time I am at F2=0 or 1. However, I never hunt with iron audio OFF or with all of the iron range target IDs rejected. I don't mind iron/steel targets falsing. I do mind it when I can't hear the actual iron responses that those targets are also producing because I refuse to hunt with any iron target IDs accepted. I just put the iron tone on a pitch that I like and adjust the iron volume level where I can clearly hear it but it isn't overpowering.

I did try hunting with iron targets rejected for awhile when I first was getting used to the Equinox BUT I used the reference threshold at the same time so it would null over rejected iron target IDs. It works pretty well, but now I don't mind listening to iron on the Equinox no matter what number of tones I'm using.

[GB_Amateur]

Excellent discussion going on here!

10 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

...I never hunt with iron audio OFF or with all of the iron range target IDs rejected. I don't mind iron/steel targets falsing. I do mind it when I can't hear the actual iron responses that those targets are also producing because I refuse to hunt with any iron target IDs accepted. I just put the iron tone on a pitch that I like and adjust the iron volume level where I can clearly hear it but it isn't overpowering.

I've reposted your photo of the coin (& some jewelry?) cherrypicking discrimination pattern you showed a few posts ago.  It appears in the iron range you are rejecting -9 thru -6 and then accepting -5 thru 0.  Is this iron selection/rejection choice made to help with identifying ferrous falsing from real targets, falsing from ground mineralization variations, or ??

[Rick N. MI]

It could be to know your in some iron.

[Jeff McClendon]

To me, "falsing" is an inadequate word to describe what the Equinox, Legend and Deus 2 are doing which is trying to correctly identify targets or at least identify portions of a complex target.

Where I often detect for coins, jewelry and relics, the ground itself including the naturally forming and transforming parts of it can be an audible target. -9 to -6 usually takes care of those "false" responses. Accepting -5 to 0 as Rick said, lets me hear actual iron target ID range responses that are mostly coming from man-made targets. Depending on the composition/decomposition of those actual man-made targets, they may have other responses in the non-ferrous part of the ID range on these SMF tech detectors. I don't mind hearing those non-ferrous responses as long as I can hear the same target making iron responses too in most cases. All of those responses give me a more complete and accurate audio idea of what may be under the coil.

So instead of being "falsing" I look at all of those responses from the ground and from iron and steel alloy objects that may also be altering or decomposing as "truthful" responses on those three detectors. 

When I am gold prospecting with the Equinox I sometimes can get away with rejecting -9 and +40 if the ground is really noisy to take care of ground noise that is driving me nuts. Usually I just hunt wide open though, since a lot of the smaller gold nuggets and pickers will often also have -9 responses along with a few other higher ones. The Legend works very much like the Equinox. On the ORX, the Gold Modes have Deus 1's negative number range built into them and there is no way to change that but that is actually a good thing. The ORX Fast and Deep modes stop at the equivalent of Deus 1 zero so trying to hunt for small nuggets (or small micro jewerly that is being masked by the ground!!!!!) that are giving responses in the Deus 1 -6.4 to 0 range using those modes......I won't hear them and I won't hear quite a few mixed ferrous objects like small tin either. Ken noticed that fairly soon after getting his ORX and got rid of it too since the possibility of unheard tin fragments reading below zero and masking good non-ferrous targets without the user knowing about it is very real using the ORX "Coin" modes.

[Bill (S. CA)]

23 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Nothing to figure out except to note that Garrett has work to do if they want to compete in multifrequency. Apex seems more like it was done just to check off that box “we have a multifrequency detector” than a serious effort to compete on top performance. Calling it an Ace says they know that. The big question is whether or not getting the rights to White’s DFX/V3i information will help in developing a detector that does compete with the heavy hitters. Garrett is in dire need of a new flagship detector. The GTI 2500 is so old, over 20 years now, that most people would assume the AT Max is the actual flagship detector at Garrett, and effectively it is. But neither is good enough any more.

Axiom really puts Garrett squarely back in the game as far as PI detectors go, so one would have to think their focus would go next into getting that new flagship to market. No, I know absolutely nothing about that. I just spent a couple weeks with Garrett top management, and frankly it never even crossed my mind to ask. I have to admit I really don’t care. They can do something, or not, whatever. It’s their business to win or lose, and I have zero interest in getting involved in anything to do with new coin detectors. What’s on the market already is more than good enough for me.

When I talk MF detectors I mention Equinox, Legend, and Deus II. We can add Manticore to that list soon. I’ve never considered the Apex to be in the same class, and at some point hopefully people will figure out it’s just an Ace detector that works well on saltwater beaches. There is no other area where it is more than just ok at best, just another Ace model in a nice little package.

Well, Steve, leave it to you to once again sum things up nicely.  Your assessment of the Apex is spot on.  I spent a lot of time using one and inland it just has a hard time.  But at a saltwater beach it really is competitive.

Best of all is that you brought up the DFX/V3i point again.  I've mentioned this to Garrett several times but it's never gone beyond that.  You are right, they do need a flagship and I would assume they are working on one.  But what will run the MF in that unit is a darn good question.  Personally I think if they apply the same creative thinking to a new flagship detector that they applied to the Axiom we might be in for a pleasant surprise from Garrett somewhere down the line.

[Jeff McClendon]

An update.

The Apex used in the test video was completely checked out by Garrett after this video was made and received a clean bill of health. That includes the Viper and Ripper coils. I did manage to sell it on Ebay for my friend. As far as I know, he is no longer detecting. Taking into account the more difficult soil conditions here, I wonder if his experience would have been different and if he would still be detecting if he had purchased a used Equinox 600, new Vanquish or new Legend with the $492 US he spent on the Apex with Z Lynk headphones? 

[Jeff McClendon]

I you happen to be a happy Apex, ORX or Legend owner, just know that I am not dissing or promoting any of these detectors. I am just showing one example of a type of detector behavior that may or may not apply to you or a potential new owner or a current user that hasn't experienced this

I have cycled through too many VLF detectors to keep track of anymore, looking for the ones that behave like the Legend in this video. Those detectors that do detect similar to the Legend on this type of ground and on coin sized targets work really well for me where I detect.

You may experience something completely different.