XP Orx, Garrett Apex, Nokta Legend Target ID Accuracy

[JCR]

You pretty much just described The Legend.

[Jeff McClendon]

53 minutes ago, JCR said:

You pretty much just described The Legend.

I would have to disagree with that. The Legend is a far better detector than the Minelab Vanquish and is on another planet compared to the APEX.

For me, what I was describing is a Garrett SMF detector that has some SMF guts not just a setting that says MF when it really is not better than the single frequency settings that are on the APEX at least where I detect.

Back when all of the Deus 2/Equinox/Legend wars were happening on YouTube, several people expressed the belief that the Legend was in the same league as the APEX and Vanquish or even the AT Pro..........

At least in my backyard test area and for general coin and jewelry detecting the Legend absolutely eats those detector's breakfast, lunch and dinner 365 days out of the year. Right now, the Vanquish 540 complete package, APEX with headphones package and the Legend WHP are within $50 of the same price here in the USA.

The only time I can realistically conceive of using my Equinox 800s at this point over the Legend is for gold prospecting (simply because my Nox setup is lighter and I trust it) and for going as deep as possible on clean ground. Otherwise, the Legend or Deus 2 are the detectors that I pickup for everything else at this point.

[Jeff McClendon]

This topic was started because of my struggling friend. He would spend minutes over a target trying to decide what to do and then once he started digging, the target was usually trash unless he got over a recent coin drop.

Anything deeper than 2 or 3" using any setting on his APEX created a kaleidoscope of tones for him as he described it. My little bit of using his Apex and the two I owned previously....see, I thought it might be me too, a bad unit or I just didn't give the APEX a chance......exactly the same performance for a detector in the upper entry level to lower intermediate level price range. 😪

I included the XP ORX in the video because it also has a very competitive price and is considered by many to be XP's entry level Deus 1. It up averaged those deeper US nickel low to mid conductor targets just as much as the APEX did but the ORX was running in single frequency unlike the APEX which was running in MultiFlex......and the ORX had much more consistent tone and ID responses.

Some of us that have been detecting a long time and have used many different detectors know how great it is to finally have some detectors with very accurate target IDs for the most part even if the coin sized targets are deeper than 6" while also having outstanding, competitive VLF depth even in pretty bad soil conditions. I would also include the very affordable Vanquish models under that umbrella if the ground isn't too trashy or mineralized. That is the advantage of most of the latest SMF technology from XP, Nokta and Minelab. 

I really wish that Garrett could add its name to that list so that even their future entry to intermediate level detectors would be a success not just for their bottom line, but also for guys like my friend that want to buy affordable AND dependable USA tech first when they have a choice. 

[phrunt]

This is in no way to be argumentative or dismiss what you're saying Jeff, you're always a straight up guy and say it how you see it but I'm a bit torn on this one, the Simplex gave me a bad experience, terribly shallow machine in my soils unless you want to dig it all yet I was reading people say it was a deep machine, much like the Deus 1 really from what I've seen so far, s h a l l o w machine with any sort of target ID accuracy. 

The behaviour you're describing with your friend is how I see the Simplex and Deus 1, unless shallow they're all over the place or no ID at all, where as the Nox is near perfect ID's down deep.  That concerns me about the Legend and why people who buy them here are selling them.

We are a pretty small market here, not a lot of detectors floating around with the smaller number of users and a bulk of them all hang around in a few groups of Facebook yet there have been quite a lot of Legends purchased and then sold quite quickly, some with very decent price drops over new.  This guy paid for a lot of extras with a total of $1665 and ended up selling it for $1100 with only 39 hours use, I guess that can be proven too as they have a usage meter.  This guy was getting rid of it as he preferred his Equinox, he's a coin hunter from what I've seen.

The cheapest Legend here is the price of a Nox 600, the Pro Pack is the price of a Nox 800 with a Coiltek 10x5" included so they're significant purchases for people to keep offloading, yet I've seen it happen a fair few times now with people selling them.  It's rare anyone sells a Nox, there was a couple get sold at the time the Deus 2 came out, both guys I saw sell were heavy duty salt water hunters and were sick of drowning Noxes, one guy that sold a Nox to buy a Deus 2 even had one of them Ukrainuan moddified Noxes to get it more waterprroof and that worked a treat for him but he wanted to try the Deus 2 anyway with it's marking as a real diving detector.  He seems happy with the Deus 2 so far.

I've avoided dabbling with the Legend as I fear while it may work well in bad soil it just won't be a deep machine when it comes to Target ID which is what I like in coin machines.  The Deus 1 has given me something to play with until the Manticore comes out as I'm confident it will be the best machine for me, a new version of an Equinox which currently is the best all rounder for me.

I really wish I could try detectors before buying them as my detector cupboard would have far fewer detectors, if I lived on the North Island where all the people are I could just hook up with other detector owners and try theirs out, a few must use Legend including the guy that bought the one pictured above.  Down on the South Island here there isn't too many detector users except in Christchurch the biggest city but its 9 hours away and they just use the Nox from what I've seen. 

I do wonder how the Apex would go in my soil, I love the look of it, really nice looking detector with an awesome screen, I could just never justify buying one when it costs more than an Equinox 600 here.

[Jeff McClendon]

You and I have already spoken about how detectors behave differently in different parts of the world. You also noted in your post how they are priced differently too depending on where one lives.

I flat out told you beforehand that Deus 1 would have similar target ID accuracy and depth capabilities as your Simplex. That appears to be correct from your description of your experiences. I am just going to say also that what you saw in the video comparing the ORX (running the same program as default Deus 1 Fast) and APEX target ID accuracy, audio accuracy (or not) and depth capabilities may transfer to your conditions too and they may not. Now, compare those to the Legend's characteristics in the video using its most basic and most derided program Park M1, a tiny coil and at 69 of 100 sensitivity......ORX was 90 of 100, APEX was at 80 of 100 and you be the judge. 

Plus you couldn't see the crutch I was leaning on in the video so my coil control was not the greatest with any of those detectors. So those are results that could be equated with a newbie's experiences.

I can't speak for your examples of people selling their Legends. Was that before or after the latest software update, speaker issues and has there been a price increase or decrease relative to the Equinox. Personally if I was an Aussie, I would try to stick with Aussie tech especially if the Legend and Equinox 800 were the same price roughly. Here in the USA, the Legend Pro Pack is less than an Equinox 600........

[phrunt]

Thanks Jeff, yep you made me very aware of what I was getting into with the Deus 1, even saying I shouldn't get it 🙂  You're very good at predicting how detectors will go in my soil. 

This is why I wish I could try before I buy though, detectors some love in their soil are terrible by comparison in my soil which is the easy soil.

The guy selling the Legend in the screenshot above says he had it on 1.09 on his ad, the fonts probably a bit small, I run my Firefox on 75% zoom shrinking it down on a high resolution screen so my fonts are very small, I like it that way, fits a lot more on my screen and I have a good set of eyeballs 🙂

I brought up his ad as I could have bought his one with all those extras even extra shafts and coil for $1100, Equinox 600 price and even at that price he had trouble selling.

Our pricing on the Legend has remained the same since it came out from what I've seen, we don't seem to get the discounts the US buyers get, we are more likely to get discounts and promos on Minelab.

I really just wish I could try before I buy.

I also wish we had US Pricing, the Legend Pro Pack for a 600 price is a brilliant deal, here the Pro Pack is more expensive than a 800.

[Jeff McClendon]

There are people here trying to sell Legends and Equinox also. Since Minelab and Nokta dropped prices for these detectors for the holiday season.......those slightly pre-owned, like new attempted sales at the same price or higher than the new models look foolishly ignorant to be honest. Whether they are selling to help fund Manticore or Deus 2 purchases....they could probably do just as well trading them in instead at this point with the prices where they are right now for brand new units or just wait until the sales are over after January 1 2023.

[Jeff McClendon]

As for the used Legend advertisement you posted. I hope he sells it. I detected over 39 hours (more like 100) on several different days, sites and ground conditions using basic Park 1 with a few audio adjustments to fit US coins way before the release of 1.09 and I had my Nox 800 with me for comparisons. That was before the extra Multi modes, Pitch tone audio, iron bias adjustments (wonder if the user in the advertisement ever tried them out or just used the default maximum IB setting) ground balance improvements and the speaker issue.  I could already easily see the potential for the Legend even then compared to the Equinox which is still my favorite detector of all time for good reason. Personally, I have barely begun to scratch the surface on the Legend's capabilities. 39 hours on a fairly complicated detector......not a good enough amount of evaluation time and then news of the Manticore happened.

Now, if I was a hardcore detectorist that was dying to own just one or two detectors for coin, jewelry and relic hunting only both above ground and for shallow diving....I would probably be scrambling to sell everything in order to buy a Manticore and/or a Deus 2 with its improved diving shafts by Steve G and XP.

[GB_Amateur]

39 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Personally, I have barely begun to scratch the surface on the Legend's capabilities. 39 hours on a fairly complicated detector......not a good enough amount of evaluation time...

Glad to see you point that out, Jeff, as I was questioning it myself.  There are probably some out there who can determine in 40 yours if a complicated detector is going to work for them or not.  If you can't then that number is likely quite small.

This thread has opened my eyes on another subject -- ground conditions.  Ground balance is one indicator; mineralization measurments are another.  But those two together apparently aren't close to telling everything.  I recall reading advice many times regarding buying the right detector for gold hunting -- find out what the detectorists in the area you want to hunt use and buy that.  There are obvious pitfalls to that, but it's making more sense after reading this.

[phrunt]

Yea, the 39 hours is a bit like me really, if I don't find a detector works well out of the box in default settings only needing to change sensitivity and detect mode (park, field, beach, gold) on something as simple as a few coins in mild ground with no junk then it's not right for me.  I don't want to have to learn to get the best out of a detector when I can use another detector, turn it on and off I go finding stuff.  If I have to fiddle to get it to work as well or better than another detector I can just press the power button and start detecting then I don't really want to use it as I'd never be sure I'm in optimal settings for the place I'm hunting.  I gradually start tweaking the turn on and go detector like the Nox once I get the hang of it to get even more out of it, but the initial impression I like to get is a detector that can just turn on and work well.   The Equinox was great for this, it just works, and I expect the same from the Manticore.

I can easily tell if I like a detector in 39 hours, a lot less than that.  He would have been comparing it to the Nox the entire time, probably had both with him, went over a few targets he was finding and decided he preferred the Nox, similar to what I do when a new toy comes to town.

I like the switch on and they just work detectors the best for my needs.  I've been able to fiddle with Jeff's great advice and get the Deus 1 performing a little bit better, but still lags a long way behind entry level machines like the Vanquish and even the good old Ace 300 when it comes to identifying deep coins with a stable Target ID in my soil.  That's why I'm a little interested in how the Apex would go, the Ace kills it on deep coins here with a big coil on it.

I've probably found more old silver coins in the past couple of years than most people sitting at over 250 now, not because I'm any good at it I just happen to live in a good place with no other detector users around 🙂  I'm probably not very good at all, just lucky so I like my detectors simple.