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California Gold Mining Getting Harder To Do


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    Federal mining laws are there to protect miners rights. We are told we have no rights. I am debating with myself on testing this by setting a pump in the water and processing gravels closer than 100 yds to the waterway. Hand digging and a settling area for run off. I have told the FS of this. They told me they will have a meeting with the water board tomorrow. 

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   This all concerns a person who has a lease from us on one of our creek claims. He put in a plan to do bulk sampling using a mini excavator & highbanker. After an eight month weight he was denight an approval because the water board refuses to issue a license. They are using the 2016 dredging law to violate his rights. His plan has nothing to do with dredging. I have had several plans approved there along the creek in the past but was informed that beginning in 2020 the Forest Service will go along with the state of California & water boards on their rulings. Previously, they ignored them and issued approvals. I think we know why they changed in 2020.

   Our advisor tells me when you sign a Plan oof Operation with the regulators you are bound by a contract. He tells me that if any plan falls under the level of surface disturbance that would trigger SMARA we should simply start working without a POO. At that point, if we are challenged we would show the appropriate laws currently in place that protect us and also show the laws in place that the authorities are violating or twisting to fit their agenda. All something to mull over and research further. Rights are rights and should not be trampled upon. 

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25 minutes ago, GhostMiner said:

He tells me that if any plan falls under the level of surface disturbance that would trigger SMARA we should simply start working without a POO.

   Might I suggest a stout pick, a high quality #2 shovel with wooden handle, 3 different sizes of steel gold pans and a damned good minerals attorney.

23 minutes ago, GhostMiner said:

 

If a plan approval for sampling  is that difficult to obtain do you think you could ever get approved for a mining project should your samples have a positive showing?

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Fighting in courts is an expensive, long process against lobby, special interest, and government. Not to say you can't win.

But if miners really want change, they'd be much better off playing the same game as everyone else that wants to tilt laws in their favor. Spend the money on lobby and politicians. It's utterly ridiculous, but it's the way this country works sadly. Our government is, and has been pay to play for a long time. Everything else is just treading water.

Years back I had the ear of a very powerful politician and the opportunity to present some mining issues to them for consideration and potential changes in Congress. I posted about it here, as a hypothetical, but it was real. I asked what the issues - sans generic complaints/whining/political ranting - would be that we could all agree on needing to be changed, if such an opportunity presented itself. A few succint, easy to present ideas with legal backing that I could distill into a short presentation. I got very little useful input.

And that there is both the problem, and why miners can never get anything done. No one agrees on anything and people just like complaining more than uniting together under a few basic, easy to understand goals, and following through on them. It's always mavericks and single manning into legal battles that waste money and end up half the time leaving precedent in courts that doesn't help, if not directly harms the rest of us. No organization, no strategy, no tactics, no plans, just a lot of shooting from the hip and then complaining when the bullet goes astray.

Sorry if this sounds negative, but it should be said even if it makes people dislike me for it. I really, truly wanted to try to help change things, and I found that pretty much impossible because everyone else needs to also want to change things and all agree on the same course of action and follow through, and the reality is that just too many people have too many differing opinions in the mining community to really do what it takes. And the ultimate course of action that it would take at this point is everyone united under one idea - which is to spend money on lobby and get actual new laws/protections in place as well as politicians on our side actively speaking in support of small scale mining in the US. Not wasting money and time on frivolous lawsuits that we already know just leave us treading water at best.

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I agree with Jason as I former member of PLP (public lands for the people) back in the early 90's I too observed division within the ranks. Jerry Hobbs and Pat Keene truly had a desire to organize us all and make some changes. Ultimately the division, lack of focus and lack of resources to fund our small lobby group in Sac to make some changes derailed to make any real change. Government and huge mining interests have the power and access to politicians. After moving from southern California to the Sierras closer to the big gold 🤫 our small community of prospectors here in the southern Sierras formed another club and ultimately it fell apart after 5 years do to a few club members doing the bulk of the work, and board member bickering about mining laws and approach to reach out to other clubs to organized some unified approach to fight for our right to mine. We are just to small, underfunded and disorganized to form a large enough coalition with good leadership, perhaps things will change one day but for now I am solo with my Minelab. Truth is, money talks and its still a pay to play government.

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18 minutes ago, jasong said:

Fighting in courts is an expensive, long process against lobby, special interest, and government. Not to say you can't win.

But if miners really want change, they'd be much better off playing the same game as everyone else that wants to tilt laws in their favor. Spend the money on lobby and politicians. It's utterly ridiculous, but it's the way this country works sadly. Our government is, and has been pay to play for a long time. Everything else is just treading water.

Years back I had the ear of a very powerful politician and the opportunity to present some mining issues to them for consideration and potential changes in Congress. I posted about it here, as a hypothetical, but it was real. I asked what the issues - sans generic complaints/whining/political ranting - would be that we could all agree on needing to be changed, if such an opportunity presented itself. A few succint, easy to present ideas with legal backing that I could distill into a short presentation. I got very little useful input.

And that there is both the problem, and why miners can never get anything done. No one agrees on anything and people just like complaining more than uniting together under a few basic, easy to understand goals, and following through on them. It's always mavericks and single manning into legal battles that waste money and end up half the time leaving precedent in courts that doesn't help, if not directly harms the rest of us. No organization, no strategy, no tactics, no plans, just a lot of shooting from the hip and then complaining when the bullet goes astray.

Sorry if this sounds negative, but it should be said even if it makes people dislike me for it. I really, truly wanted to try to help change things, and I found that pretty much impossible because everyone else needs to also want to change things and all agree on the same course of action and follow through, and the reality is that just too many people have too many differing opinions in the mining community to really do what it takes. And the ultimate course of action that it would take at this point is everyone united under one idea - which is to spend money on lobby and get actual new laws/protections in place as well as politicians on our side actively speaking in support of small scale mining in the US. Not wasting money and time on frivolous lawsuits that we already know just leave us treading water at best.

The big corporations in mining do all of those things for their projects. However, that doesn't help the small scale miners or exploration companies that lack the funding & clout.

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2 minutes ago, IronDigger said:

I agree with Jason as I former member of PLP (public lands for the people) back in the early 90's I too observed division within the ranks. Jerry Hobbs and Pat Keene truly had a desire to organize us all and make some changes. Ultimately the division, lack of focus and lack of resources to fund our small lobby group in Sac to make some changes derailed to make any real change. Government and huge mining interests have the power and access to politicians. After moving from southern California to the Sierras closer to the big gold 🤫 our small community of prospectors here in the southern Sierras formed another club and ultimately it fell apart after 5 years do to a few club members doing the bulk of the work, and board member bickering about mining laws and approach to reach out to other clubs to organized some unified approach to fight for our right to mine. We are just to small, underfunded and disorganized to form a large enough coalition with good leadership, perhaps things will change one day but for now I am solo with my Minelab. Truth is, money talks and its still a pay to play government.

Yep.

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I agree with the last few posts, and that seems like a good place to stop. I was very involved in the political aspects of things in Alaska, and a got a lot done by aligning with larger mining interests through the Alaska Miners Association. People down south avoid the big organizations, and that is a mistake. We formed a small mining committee in the AMA made up of members like myself, and by being part of the larger organization, we had the ear of the people that mattered. These efforts to go it alone will come to naught, as small miners alone suffer from all the problems already noted. You either align with power where it is, or are shut out. It's that simple.

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