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Question About The Manti's "2d".


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Hello.

The Manti's 2D screen is a target ID plotter with a decay rate of about 5 seconds. In other words, a coin under the coil will be represented by a blob on the nonferrous axis, and if there is a separated coin and nail, then the nail will show on the ferrous axis. But, how is that better than the TID? For example, as long as you don't have the nail discriminated out, then the TID would quickly alternate between the coin ID and the nail ID, plus you would hear a distinct ferrous tone, and a distinct nonferrous tone.

So, if all that is correct, then how is the 2D screen showing anything that the TID can't show, or that you can't hear with tones? More specifically, how would the 2D screen affect your dig/no dig decision? 

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I'm sure others here much smarter than I will give you a better explanation.  But for idiots like me, my ears aren't good enough to distinguish two targets vs one target jumping around and I often can't tell that the TID jumping back and forth is doing so between two (or more) targets or just one inconsistent target.  The Target Trace will solve that problem for me in most cases by showing me two distinct targets or a ferrous target smeared into a good target. 

Also, the TID is the  X scale on the screen left to right.  But there is no TID for the ferrous ID on the Y scale (up and down).  The Target Trace screen is showing you both scales together to improve your understanding of the target(s) under the coil. That's just my 2 cents. 

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I might think the target ID is jumping around and decide to not dig an "iffy" target where the screen might show me that this is actually two objects smearing the TID.  Realize I don't have a Manticore in hand and am only speculating that this will be valuable to me.

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 From the manual without the image.... Non‑ferrous objects with nearby iron trash can also create an unusually shaped Target Trace. Often iron trash is much stronger and dominates the detection, pulling the target trace towards the ferrous region. However with the superior target separation of MANTICORE, the non‑ferrous target can often be seen to pull the target trace just into the non‑ferrous region, unmasking the non‑ferrous detection. A medieval cut quarter farthing (coin) next to an iron nail. Note how the coin pulls the target trace down and in the direction of the correct ID for the coin.

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You can't audibly always tell you have two targets no matter how the detector is configured. I.D. and tone will normally jump around a lot. Iron alone can do that. If I.B. is set low you can make a lot of iron targets sound good from certain directions. Still I.D. tends to jump around and is better one way than the other. Set I.B. to high and you could get potentially good targets iron grunting. 

I still don't get why your saying a visual aid is not a good thing, and that a certain configuration will allow you to know all you need to know just by numerical and audio alone. If you can see you have two targets close and interfering with the numerical I.D. and audible I.D. of each other I think that's a useful feature. I don't think I.B. is going to help you much on multiple targets as much as single targets. I have always ran I.B. on the 800 at F2-0. That's pretty low. I don't dig a lot of iron even with an I.B. setting that would be considered low enough to make you check a lot of falsing iron. The thing is I'm not 100% sure it's not two items close together regardless of the tone and numerical I.D.. In some situations the screen would tell me there is two targets not just one falsing iron target. In the case of the 2D screen showing two targets I can make my decision to dig or not based on additional information.   

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IDK what the numbers would show or tones.  Looking forward to good in the wild videos about this.  If the numbers are jumping around but the trace shows target trace vectoring toward  the non ferrous centerline it would be more information to make a decision.  But need to see more vid's as I'm guessing.

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32 minutes ago, longbow62 said:

You can't audibly always tell you have two targets no matter how the detector is configured. 

I still don't get why your saying a visual aid is not a good thing.

I never said it wasn't a good thing. All I'm asking is if someone can provide an exact scenario in which the tones and/or ID would not be able to provide the same info as the 2D.

It's quite clear that if we're talking about individual targets, then there isn't any benefit with 2D. With an individual target, it's much easier, and more accurate to identify the target when it's associated with a number, as opposed to a circle somewhere on a line.

I normally hunt ferrous infested sites for nonferrous targets, and as such, my iron bias control is critical, and I hunt by tone only. I'm not even looking at the screen because I hear my low grunts for iron, and a clean high tone for the nonferrous targets. There is no reason to look at the screen, and it's easy to discern between the ferrous and nonferrous.

 

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INTERPRETING THE TARGET TRACE Most detected targets will show a distinct Target Trace that accompanies a solid, repeatable Target ID number. Just like the ID number, the Trace fades away over 5 seconds. Learning to interpret the Target Trace is a worthwhile skill because it shows you additional information about the target that cannot be conveyed by the Target ID number alone and may not be obvious from listening to the detection audio. For example, if you detect a Target ID that you aren't interested in, but the ID Map is showing an elongated or irregularly shaped Trace, then there may be an adjacent object that is affecting the accuracy of the Target ID. You can now choose to investigate the target further. Factors that affect the shape and position of the Target Trace include metallic composition, complexity, orientation and depth as well as swing rate and Frequency setting. The opacity of the Target Trace is dependant on target strength. Strong signals generate a darker trace (are more opaque) whereas weaker signals generate a lighter trace (are more transparent).

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