Nox 900 Tid Stability

[GB_Amateur]

18 hours ago, Cal_Cobra said:

(Shotgun shells and other small arms discards) are to relic hunters what pull-tabs are to turf hunters 💣

Oh, yeh?

8 hours ago, strick said:

at least with the 800 I knew when I got a 13 it was either a nickel or an ax head 🤣

Oh, yeh? 

While waiting patiently for the Manticore, I've been taking my ML Eqx 800 (w/11" coil) out to some sites I've previously hunted and trying some settings that I shelved (or ignored) a couple or more years ago.  Someone here mentioned Park 2 possibly giving fewer iron false hits than Park 1.  So I set up Park 2 exactly the way I set up Park 1 except upping Recovery Speed from 4 to 5.  (Meanwhile, all this time I've been wondering if people who saw less falsing in Park 2 had their settings otherwise identical.)

I got a consistent 13 in Park 2 and mostly 13 with just a bit of 14 in Park 1.  The strength meter said ~3 bars which in my soil is (for a small coin -- cent, 5 cent, 10 cent) usually anwhere from 3 to 6 inches.  So I didn't think I was experiencing signal-to-noise VDI bleeding that can come with depth.

In the 4-5 inch range I got a round item I was hoping was a nickel.  Turns out it was a shotgun shell butt, and given I was in an old muni park, likely an old one.  (Haven't tried to determine its age yet.)

I'm not trying to contradict you guys 👍 as you're both seasoned enough (more than I, in fact) to know that every rule of metal deteting discrimination has its exceptions.  And with the Manticore soon (hopefully) in my hands I'm going to have to relearn where to set my mental discriminator to get the nickels and limit the pulltabs to as much as is tolerable.  (I don't mind digging casings, even in Western ghost towns, and I think I've only ever found one axehead, up the 'mountain'/hillside from Santa Cruz so maybe not all that far from you two guys' home turf?)

[GB_Amateur]

16 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

I have no idea who recommended or wanted 119 target IDs for the Nox 700/900 opposed to 50 for the Nox 600/800.

On the surface it seems like a great idea to have more target IDs especially more non-ferrous low to mid conductor target IDs. Nox 600/800 was 1 to 20 and Nox 700/900 is 1 to 60. So that's a ton of low to mid conductor target IDs on the 700/900 between tiny foil/micro gold jewelry/tiny nuggets to USA zinc pennies. 

However, this wide 60 digit range of IDs instead of 20 for the same targets on the 600/800 at least for USA hunters is almost overkill. Nokta got it just about right with their 11 to 40 range with their 30 digit range for the same targets.

Maybe there needs to be a stability update.......don't know yet since recovering deeper targets where I live right now would require heavy equipment or at least a jack hammer......

Jeff, since you're a seasoned Deus 2 user (with it's ~100 VDI scale) and now a 900 owner+user, are you noticing a big difference yet in the VDI speads between these two for similar type and depth target?

[abenson]

10 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

Jeff, since you're a seasoned Deus 2 user (with it's ~100 VDI scale) and now a 900 owner+user, are you noticing a big difference yet in the VDI speads between these two for similar type and depth target?

Sorry Chuck I'm not Jeff but I'll thought I would throw out some things I'm noticing between the two. First the VDI scale is different for both. The Deus 2 high conductors are getting compressed in the top 10 numbers which I really don't like. I've had quarters read as high as 96 on the D2, so where does that put halves and dollars? You have copper pennies, dimes, quarters, halves and dollars all in the last 10 digits. The 900 on the other hand has a much bigger spread for high conductors about 20 points. That being said, for high conductors my observation so far is the D2 locks on silver dimes pretty dang good 91-93 usually and silver quarters 94-96. Have not dug a half yet with the D2, I fell like the D2 target ID holds true a little better at depth than the 900. The ID just goes away once it's out of range on the D2. For the 900, what I have witnessed so far is quarters and halves are locking right on even at depth. Dimes and pennies on the other hand are all over the place. I've had pennies come in all the way from mid 60's to mid 70's Dime I've had read any where from mid 70"s to mid 80's. And then nickels 23-27 on the 900, 60-65 depending on the nickel for the D2. Kind of sucks trying to remember what reads what on the 2 when you use one day and the next use the other. That being said and I've said it before, the type of hunting I do I'm going to dig practically anything over 20 on the 900 and 50 on the D2. And gold nugget hunting I dig even lower numbers on both.

[Jeff McClendon]

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

Jeff, since you're a seasoned Deus 2 user (with it's ~100 VDI scale) and now a 900 owner+user, are you noticing a big difference yet in the VDI speads between these two for similar type and depth target?

Like I said earlier, digging deeper targets where IDs can start to wander is just not happening right now.

This next bit is totally USA specific so it may not apply to many non-USA people.

I will say that Deus 2 and the Nox 700/900 both have very big roughly 60 digit low to mid conductor target ranges between the first non-ferrous ID for tiny foil and the USA zinc penny. The difference is where the US nickel and similar targets occur on their target ID ranges. USA modern nickels air test at  25/26 on my 900 on its 1 to 60 low to mid conductor range. On Deus 2 USA modern nickels air test at 62/63 on its 26 to 86 low conductor to mid conductor range.

On actual live dig targets at 4 to 8" depth, I have seen nickels on the 900 hit in the 24 to 28 range and I have seen USA modern nickels on Deus 2 hit in the 61 to 65 range if that helps anyone. I have also seen US zinc pennies have a huge 10 digit or more range on both detectors and the Legend. I really have to get the coil centered over USA zinc pennies to get a reliable ID. The Nox 800 wasn't much better on either denomination depending on depth and soil conditions.

[GB_Amateur]

Thanks, Andrew and Jeff.  (I should have requested more openly rather than just asking Jeff alone.  I'm glad I didn't silence everyone else, but more could have answered I supposed.) 

It sounds like for the most part the spread in VDI's, at least at this early stage of Manticore experience, isn't that much different than the Deus 2 when it comes to VDI's, with possible exceptions.  What does stand out as different (if I'm understanding) is the following:

2 hours ago, abenson said:

The (overload) ID just goes away once it's out of range on the D2.

So that's a 'tell' that something highly conductive is the target?  I.e. the highest conduction targets (e.g. a stack of silver coins) doesn't wrap around to iron?  Maybe we don't yet know how the Manticore reacts to an extremely conductive target, though.

 

[EL NINO77]

I tried manticore on a Roman AS coin, and the ID was at a value of around VDI 90-94 ... so it's cool. in the positions on the flats and on the edge when detecting the side of the coin..

[GB_Amateur]

10 minutes ago, EL NINO77 said:

I tried manticore on a Roman AS coin,...

I'm drawing a blank (i.e. confused look).  What does 'AS' mean?

[abenson]

36 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

Thanks, Andrew and Jeff.  (I should have requested more openly rather than just asking Jeff alone.  I'm glad I didn't silence everyone else, but more could have answered I supposed.) 

It sounds like for the most part the spread in VDI's, at least at this early stage of Manticore experience, isn't that much different than the Deus 2 when it comes to VDI's, with possible exceptions.  What does stand out as different (if I'm understanding) is the following:

So that's a 'tell' that something highly conductive is the target?  I.e. the highest conduction targets (e.g. a stack of silver coins) doesn't wrap around to iron?  Maybe we don't yet know how the Manticore reacts to an extremely conductive target, though.

 

Chuck I just meant at depth when a target it at the D2's detection limits, there is no ID. Where as the 900 is still flashing up numbers.

[midalake]

5 hours ago, abenson said:

Chuck I just meant at depth when a target it at the D2's detection limits, there is no ID. Where as the 900 is still flashing up numbers.

Have you found any "secret sauce" to tell if a target is ferrous or non-ferrous when the D-2 will not ID? 
At least in Beach Modes I have not found a good combination for 360 conformation. 

[EL NINO77]

14 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

I'm drawing a blank (i.e. confused look).  What does 'AS' mean?

.... Roman AS is a big and thick highly conductive coin.. so I was wondering how the manticore would react to such a target...

for comparison, I will show AS as well as other coins such as for example the gold stater/electrum/, 1  gold ducat and gold 4 ducats  coin ...will react with the range.... if you have the detector   EQUINOX program multiF  Park1

 

......An interesting result in this test was...that a 4 cm gold coin of the same size as a silver dollar...had a significantly greater detection range than silver coins of the size of a dollar/silver Dollar and silver 5 Pesetas 1891 /.

I did similar tests with CTX ...with similar results..