M8 & M15 Coils Price And Availability?

[Luis]

we are seeing a big price reduction in Minelab than we are not used to, we are seeing it in beginner detectors to compete with nokta as well as in the high end with the introduction of the axiom.  I don't know what will happen when Nokta presents its pulse detector.  Welcome be the competition

 

[GB_Amateur]

12 minutes ago, phrunt said:

...I'm sure it's a numbers game to (Codan/Minelab).

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!!!!  We can sit here in the cheap seats (with our prejudices, e.g. "I want coil ABC so it ought to be a no brainer that they make it yesterday") but I'm pretty sure they have people on the payroll whose sole job is to figure out pricing, distribution, etc. that will maximize their profits.  We may be right (i.e. the smart ones) and they may be wrong (i.e. the stupid ones) but I highly doubt that.

[Chase Goldman]

13 minutes ago, Luis said:

we are seeing a big price reduction in Minelab than we are not used to, we are seeing it in beginner detectors to compete with nokta as well as in the high end with the introduction of the axiom.  I don't know what will happen when Nokta presents its pulse detector.  Welcome be the competition

 

I have not seen this big ML price reduction of which you speak.  Maybe I am misinterpreting your post?

Yes, Nox 600/800 was a paradigm shift for ML as it brought relatively affordable, premium Simultaneous MF to the masses back in 2018. It was a game changer in terms of value (superior performance at reasonable cost).

However that really didn't set ML on a path to be a leader in affordable, capable detectors going forward despite increased pressure from competitors of late (Garrett, Nokta, XP, and now Quest).

The revamped Nox 700/900 (arguably what Nox should have been when released 5 years ago) was priced higher than the legacy Nox 600/800 and that was AFTER ML RAISED the price on the Nox 800 by $100US 4 years after release.   

The Manticore improves on some of Nox's features and adds a 2 D display but is the debateable incremental improvement in performance with a physical/ergonomic design equivalent to the Nox 900 worth the $600 premium over the Nox 900?

Now they are getting ready to release a multiple selectable frequency machine (Xterra Pro) that doesn't appear to be poised to come in under the SMF Nokta Legend price point.

I have not seen ANY ML answer to the Garrett Axiom and don't expect to any time soon since it's only been about a year plus since the GPX 6000 PI was released in the US at a price about $2K US more than the Axiom.

So really, I am not understanding your point.

[phrunt]

The heavy discounting thus far has been with the Gold Machines, even throwing in a free Nox or GM1000 or whatever it was with the sale, now the pricing feels falling off a cliff for the GPX 6000 since the Axioms release. 

The X-Terra Pro looks to be $269 USD, so I assume that's lower than the Legend, and more Simplex pricing, and if so it kills the Simplex in one hit, and then Nokta are releasing new Simplex models but nothing special there, bluetooth and 15kHz instead of 12kHz, so they'd have to lower the price even further to battle it out with the switching frequency X-Terra.  They have a model Simplex with no bluetooth at all which they'll end up doing significantly cheaper just to have the cheapest available.

https://bigboyshobbies.net/minelab-x-terra-pro

If you have a large customer base that are all annoyed by similar things about your products, there is something wrong.  They should do a survey of their customers, it might be an eye opener.   The problem is when in a situation like this brand loyalty diminishes, and if another option comes to market it becomes a pleasure to jump ship.  Competition is getting hot, had they have treated their customers better in the past few years they may have held onto far more customers as more options become available.  It's not just about taking money once for a sale, you want to keep them as customers in the future too.  When you had the best products available that was easy, if you're just part of a group with similar products not so much.

People now are already using the reasoning that the Nox 900 already has its coils available and we know their price so I'm more comfortable just buying a Nox 900 rather than a Manticore because of this, they're hindering sales by not having the coils available at release with no known date of release.  They can make all these new detectors and get them to market but they can't get a couple of coils to market?  They're just not a priority.

I love Minelab detectors, they're certainly the ones I use 80% of the time, I don't like how they run some areas of their business though and their flaws are made far more evident by another detector manufacturer that tries their hardest to engage and keep customers happy.

For now I'm waiting for my Manticore coils to be released, I will be buying them all, including any smaller aftermarket coil that Coiltek hopefully makes, and if Coiltek make a big coil like the 17x13" CTX coil and don't make it weigh the same as a concrete block I'd buy one of them too.

[Chase Goldman]

18 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!!!!  We can sit here in the cheap seats (with our prejudices, e.g. "I want coil ABC so it ought to be a no brainer that they make it yesterday") but I'm pretty sure they have people on the payroll whose sole job is to figure out pricing, distribution, etc. that will maximize their profits.  We may be right (i.e. the smart ones) and they may be wrong (i.e. the stupid ones) but I highly doubt that.

My idea was they (the bean counters) could have their cake and eat it too.  Have Coiltek take the investment burden of coil manufacture and aftermarket support off ML's hands and then ride the wave of increased Manticore sales resulting from people who are swayed by the aftermarket coil choices.  Also, the Coiltek 10x5 coil has been a smashing success from both a performance and sales perspective.  Coiltek had a lot of trouble keeping up with demand.  Don't understand why ML wouldn't want to aggressively get in a position to grab a piece of that action while the Manticore post-release hype and enthusiasm bubble is at its peak.

[Chase Goldman]

16 minutes ago, phrunt said:

The X-Terra Pro looks to be $269 USD,

OK Missed that price announcement.  That's not a bad price point for selectable Single Frequency.  Which is really where Nokta should go with the "new" Simplex.

If Nokta is embracing BT whole heartedly they really need to get the BT variant of their PP out there.  And probably move away from APTX to BLE.  They deadended pulse dive wireless integration when they abandoned their proprietary wireless accessories on Legend.

[phrunt]

1 minute ago, Chase Goldman said:

OK Missed that price announcement.  That's not a bad price point.

Simplex killer 🙂

[GB_Amateur]

12 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Have Coiltek take the investment burden of coil manufacture and aftermarket support off ML's hands and then ride the wave of increased Manticore sales resulting from people who are swayed by the aftermarket coil choices.

How big (and busy) is Coiltek?  Can they handle the demand that Manticore coils will bring?  I suspect the wise guys here will say it's easy to expand their company, suppliers, etc.  My standard, sarcastic reply:  "Everything appears easy as long as someone else is doing it."

There are other options besides Coiltek, though.  Unfortunately one big one (in Ukraine) is otherwise occupied, and the unfortunate part goes way past us end users.

[Luis]

46 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

I have not seen this big ML price reduction of which you speak.  Maybe I am misinterpreting your post?

Yes, Nox 600/800 was a paradigm shift for ML as it brought relatively affordable, premium Simultaneous MF to the masses back in 2018. It was a game changer in terms of value (superior performance at reasonable cost).

However that really didn't set ML on a path to be a leader in affordable, capable detectors going forward despite increased pressure from competitors of late (Garrett, Nokta, XP, and now Quest).

The revamped Nox 700/900 (arguably what Nox should have been when released 5 years ago) was priced higher than the legacy Nox 600/800 and that was AFTER ML RAISED the price on the Nox 800 by $100US 4 years after release.   

The Manticore improves on some of Nox's features and adds a 2 D display but is the debateable incremental improvement in performance with a physical/ergonomic design equivalent to the Nox 900 worth the $600 premium over the Nox 900?

Now they are getting ready to release a multiple selectable frequency machine (Xterra Pro) that doesn't appear to be poised to come in under the SMF Nokta Legend price point.

I have not seen ANY ML answer to the Garrett Axiom and don't expect to any time soon since it's only been about a year plus since the GPX 6000 PI was released in the US at a price about $2K US more than the Axiom.

So really, I am not understanding your point.

The 6000 has just dropped 25% of its price and it's only been a year since its arrival.  When have you ever gotten a high end price reduction on a newly released detector?  I think never

[phrunt]

Minelab won't allow others to make coils for it, to say Minelab don't have control of the aftermarket manufacturers is an understatement, I'm confident they can only make what they're allowed to make and not whatever sizes and types they want.  It's a damn shame Detech and Nel can't make coils for the modern Minelab VLFs.  My Nox or Manticore with a Detech 13" Ultimate and a Nel Snake, I'd be so happy.

The demand for the 10x5" Nox must be slowing by now, the others were average sellers at best, the 6000 coils had a good run without NF coils on the market which are slowly trickling out now too which will slow the demand for the Coiltek's a bit.  They should have capacity to make some Manticore coils, the big burst of sales of any coil is right after release.  The original GPX model Coiltek coils will have slowed to a crawl at best, most would just be buying them on the second hand market with an abundance for sale due to people upgrading detector.