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Are The Minelab Manticore Users Just Beta Testers?


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On 1/26/2023 at 7:27 AM, GB_Amateur said:

Let's take a look at some considerations:

1) No one that I know likes to have to return a detector (or other device) for a fix/repair.

2) Modern detectors, at least most of the higher end ones, now have the capability of software upgrades available to the user, so no physical return is necessary for a software fix/upgrade.

3) Some modern higher end detectors (e.g. XP Deus 1 and 2, Nokta Legend, Minelab Equinox and Manticore) take considerable time to learn for most people, at least for those who want to optimize settings for the highest performance in their sites.

4) There is no requirement to buy ASAP, even for people who know they want the new model.

So, short of hardware issues that require a return, there is zero downside for those who want the detector ASAP, and those who want to wait for things to settle down have that option.  It's a win-win.  It's an easy choice for me.  Rather than waiting months for the manufacturer to find every bug, small or large (and realistically we all know, or should know that is just about impossible today) I can be using and especially learning this detector on-the-fly.  Will I have to 'unlearn' something because of a future change?  Maybe, but I'll still be months ahead on the learning curve.

P.S. Back when I bought my first new vehicle (1977), there was already a piece of advice tossed about -- wait for the second year of a model before purchasing.  So unless 45 years is like yesterday (and it does seem like that as I've aged :sad:), this isn't a new occurrence and it didn't start with consumer electronics.

For the most part, that's true. There are exceptions though. My wife bought the first Toyota Tacoma pickup and it's been the best, most reliable vehicle we've ever owned. 27 years and a quarter million miles later and it's still the original drivetrain, steering, suspension, etc. that's never been out of the truck. It even has the original clutch in it! 

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So on the original question, are we Beta Testers?

I utilize and work with beta testers regularly in my job.  By my understanding and definition of a beta tester, I would say emphatically no, we are not beta testers.  We're early production rollout customers.  From the business perspective there is a significant difference.  But some of the effects on the user are the same 😂.

- Dave

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On 1/28/2023 at 4:35 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

and is why I have long recommended waiting a minimum of 6 months before buying any new detector model.

If we all did that then there would never be any feedback or updates to machines, I would rather be on the journey early enjoying a new machine and proving feedback to the manufacturer if I thought it would improve performance.

Its no different for nearly all new tech, the latest iPhone will have updates within weeks of its release.

In this hi-tech software driven world nothing is ever truly finished.

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Yeah, right, nobody is going to buy early. Really? I’m not being critical if people choose to be early adopters. I’m normally an early adopter myself. That does not make the advice any less valid for the average person. People who want relatively bug free product should wait. Those who want to be on the cutting edge - great. But anyone doing so should not be all shocked and and surprised when bugs do appear in early product.

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1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Yeah, right, nobody is going to buy early. Really? I’m not being critical if people choose to be early adopters. I’m normally an early adopter myself. That does not make the advice any less valid for the average person. People who want relatively bug free product should wait. Those who want to be on the cutting edge - great. But anyone doing so should not be all shocked and and surprised when bugs do appear in early product.

it is like the Legend roll out people complained saying it was taking to long and they griped, once it was delivered they complained saying it was not ready to be released (you can not have it both ways), i jumped on the Legend knowing there were going to be updates, why that upset anyone who knows, anyone that thought there were not going to be updates were living in a dream state, my belief is Nokta/macro now Nokta released the legend and delivered it to us exactly when they wanted to release it to us, they released it knowing they would be sending out updates they just did not realize just how many updates it would take, to get the legend to the point Nokta wanted, I believe this next update will be the last one and will make the Legend exactly what Nokta intended

I am sure the Manticore is going to be the same way.

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I'd be very surprised if the Manticore gets two firmware updates in its lifecycle, Minelab really don't offer the level of update support Nokta does.   There are software bugs on the GPZ 7000 that never were fixed and it cost 10 grand! Mine being only a couple of years old now if that still has the switch from difficult to normal bug where it loses audio and you have to turn it off and on again to get it to work, I asked if they had a fix, they said no and they have no plans to fix it.  I have their reply email somewhere, it was quite rude really.  Yes we know the problem exists, no we aren't going to fix it, maybe the guy that wrote the GPZ software left for greener pastures and no one else knows how to fix it. 

They'll save improvements for the Manticore v2, all they'll likely fix is if there is known issues and even then they'd have to be significant and cause a lot of complaints before they do anything, just a hunch based upon the GPX 6000 audio fix.

Although, we can't base it on history as much now, they have serious competition in the VLF market, they're not dominating it, and more and more brands appear to be getting up there, Quests new release looks great, Rutus is doing wonderful things but needs to expand to other regions and then there is XP and Nokta all very competitive and Nokta with the best support at a fraction of the price.

I doubt they'll get another Equinox where everyone just has to have one, those days are gone already killed by competition, I'd be surprised if they can even hold on to being the most popular, as others gain on them or exceed their detectors then many will jump ship and all their customers that used them because they had to not because they wanted to will be happy to jump ship.  Their lack of caring about their customers or at least that is the perception by many may come back to bite them.

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1 hour ago, phrunt said:

I'd be very surprised if the Manticore gets two firmware updates in its lifecycle, Minelab really don't offer the level of update support Nokta does.   There are software bugs on the GPZ 7000 that never were fixed and it cost 10 grand! Mine being only a couple of years old now if that still has the switch from difficult to normal bug where it loses audio and you have to turn it off and on again to get it to work, I asked if they had a fix, they said no and they have no plans to fix it.  I have their reply email somewhere, it was quite rude really.  Yes we know the problem exists, no we aren't going to fix it, maybe the guy that wrote the GPZ software left for greener pastures and no one else knows how to fix it. 

They'll save improvements for the Manticore v2, all they'll likely fix is if there is known issues and even then they'd have to be significant and cause a lot of complaints before they do anything, just a hunch based upon the GPX 6000 audio fix.

Although, we can't base it on history as much now, they have serious competition in the VLF market, they're not dominating it, and more and more brands appear to be getting up there, Quests new release looks great, Rutus is doing wonderful things but needs to expand to other regions and then there is XP and Nokta all very competitive and Nokta with the best support at a fraction of the price.

I doubt they'll get another Equinox where everyone just has to have one, those days are gone already killed by competition, I'd be surprised if they can even hold on to being the most popular, as others gain on them or exceed their detectors then many will jump ship and all their customers that used them because they had to not because they wanted to will be happy to jump ship.  Their lack of caring about their customers or at least that is the perception by many may come back to bite them.

Agree with you phrunt but there are still those hardcore Mine Lab fan boys that will buy anything mine lab throws out to the market no mater how bad it is or what problems exist and those fan boys will never admit to the issues, its still going on with the Legend and the hard core fan boys of the Nox 600&800 they will not even admit there were ever any issues with the first two equinox, me I am a fan of what ever works no matter what brand it is, that is why I am sold on Nokta they actually listen and care about their customers, we are not just $$$$$ signs to them, I believe, they do know that with out their customers they (Nokta)would soon not exist and Mine Lab has not figured that out as of yet, and do not take me wrong I love some of the Mine Lab Detectors but I am not real keen on their customer service at all

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Yeah well this is the Minelab Manticore Forum, not the Comparisons Forum, or the Nokta Forum. People here are supposed to be fan boys, and nobody will score many points coming to the club house and disparaging the fans. I do love the spin that Nokta planned a screwed up release though. If it was Minelab the Legend would have been a disaster and nobody would let them forget it. Nokta it was all planned for the good of all to jump the gun and ship unfinished product. Uh huh, sure. Who is the fan boy now? :smile: Oh wait, that was me, first Nokta Fan Boy, swinging one before most people ever heard of them. I have to admit their ability to communicate with customers leaves Minelab in shame by comparison.

Manticore will not be remotely as bad as the Legend release though, not even close. It is a follow up second generation detector that builds on the errors made with Equinox. So that part is largely over with Equinox, and like Simon I doubt there will be more than one, or at most a couple updates to the Manticore.

The reality is Minelab has been driving the cutting edge of the technology now for decades, and people lining up to buy their latest product is based on good sense proven by past history, not blind fan boy loyalty. In the gold prospecting world it’s largely been a case of buy Minelab or be left behind now for going on 30 years.

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3 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Yeah well this is the Minelab Manticore Forum, not the Comparisons Forum, or the Nokta Forum. People here are supposed to be fan boys, and nobody will score many points coming to the club house and disparaging the fans. I do love the spin that Nokta planned a screwed up release though. If it was Minelab the Legend would have been a disaster and nobody would let them forget it. Nokta it was all planned for the good of all to jump the gun and ship unfinished product. Uh huh, sure. Who is the fan boy now? :smile: Oh wait, that was me, first Nokta Fan Boy, swinging one before most people ever heard of them. I have to admit their ability to communicate with customers leaves Minelab in shame by comparison.

Manticore will not be remotely as bad as the Legend release though, not even close. It is a follow up second generation detector that builds on the errors made with Equinox. So that part is largely over with Equinox, and like Simon I doubt there will be more than one, or at most a couple, updates to the Manticore.

The reality is Minelab has been driving the cutting edge of the technology now for decades, and people lining up to buy their latest product is based on good sense proven by past history, not blind fan boy loyalty. In the gold prospecting world it’s largely been a case of buy Minelab or be left behind now for going on 30 years.

I actually think the 700/900 is the second generation of the Equinox, and that the Mcore is another step beyond that. To me, the 900 is a nicely refined and improved 800 with the Mcore being more of a hybrid with the CTX and Nox tech mixed together.

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1 minute ago, cudamark said:

I actually think the 700/900 is the second generation of the Equinox, and that the Mcore is another step beyond that. To me, the 900 is a nicely refined and improved 800 with the Mcore being more of a hybrid with the CTX and Nox tech mixed together.

Of course that is the case, but lessons learned from the Nox still applied in Manticore development. The 700/900 are Nox updates, the Manticore intended as an E-TRAC replacement.

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