Deus 2 Vs Manticore. Relic Hunting In Hot Dirt.

[Daniel Tn]

This started out as *not* a battle between the two.  The site I like to test detectors recently sold and I was finally able to get in touch with the new owners and re-acquire permission for it.  I have about another yr before it gets turned into a housing development.  What it is, is a practice range from the Civil War.  There are minie balls everywhere on it...the problem is, they are in 4-5 bar dirt and on most every VLF machine they will read as iron.  We figured this out years ago and it has just always been my place to test new detectors in a 150+ yr old test garden.  

I started out here with the Manticore.  All Terrain General with Normal audio profile, 5 tones.  Sens was at 25.  Long press noise canceled and ground balanced...off I went.  Observation number 1...it behaves a lot like the Equinox in hot dirt in that it is real chatty and falses a lot.  I hunted with it quite a while and found 2 really shallow bullets and a whole lot of non digging time between them.  I just wasn't locating signals 😕  My plan was to try and get back on the bullet site...and if that had failed, I was going to go down the road to a farm I have permission for, and hunt some iron patches with the D2 and 9 inch coil.  After hunting about an hour with the Manticore, it dawned on me that I hadn't had the D2 at this place either and I might as well give it a try since I was there.  

I went back to the truck and got the D2 out.  I went to the factory Relic program and bumped the disc up to 4. Ground balanced it and started swinging.  Right out of the chute I noted it was very quiet.  I probably didn't go 20 feet and had a really good 70s signal.  Banger signal.  Out came a bullet.  Filled that hole...4 feet from it another 70s. Another bullet. Both of those were relatively shallow...4 inches or so.  Then a few yards away, another great signal but a little weaker audio.  Still 4 way repeating.  At this point I walked to the truck and got the Manticore.  I wanted to see what it would do on this signal.  To my surprise it was crap. On the graph, it drew a smear up in the upper ferrous range and would occasionally blip about every other pass across it.  So we had one machine saying non ferrous all the way...and one that was mostly sure it was iron.  I dug and a mid depth bullet was in the bottom of the hole.  By mid depth I mean from the tip of my Garrett pinpointer to the on/off button. I'm not sure the exact measurement of that but 6 inches would be a fair guesstimate.  And this is how it went for the majority of the rest of the bullets I found.  I tried different modes on the Manticore...the only way to locate and find the bullets with it, would be to hunt a totally open screen and dig EVERY THING.  So in that regard...the Manticore *IMO*, falls into the lump of the vast majority of other VLF machines for hot dirt.  Remember I said that it was "well rounded"...well that still holds true.  It can do a lot of things pretty well...but hot dirt is not one of its strong suits.  

What is surprising to me is how well the D2 ran in it.  I started in Relic mode but quickly found out that General mode hit them just as easy with a bit more pleasing audio.  I did NOT dig any deep ones...about pinpointer deep was the deepest but I had several in that range. All were great signals and this being with the 9 inch coil is even more impressive.

Right now...if you told me I could keep only one machine. I would keep the D2....despite hating that stupid antenna for hunting in water.  The Manticore is well rounded...but the D2 has a bit more strengths in the types of hunting I do.

 

[JCR]

Comparative field testing detectors in difficult sites is one of the best ways to learn for sure.

Did you ever run the Tarsacci on that site?

[Daniel Tn]

21 minutes ago, JCR said:

Comparative field testing detectors in difficult sites is one of the best ways to learn for sure.

Did you ever run the Tarsacci on that site?

Yes we did....that's how long ago it has been since I've been at that site. The Tarsacci had JUST came available to purchase.  We didn't do so well with it and Dimitar sent us a prototype coil to try at the site, and some setting suggestions so we revisited it with that coil and a new arsenal of settings to try.  We had about the same result as the first time. My buddy owned the Tarsacci at the time and I still had the GPX.  I'd locate bullets with the GPX and then we'd try to come up with settings to check out the Tarsacci.  Pulse machine still reign king of the heap in that stuff...matter of fact, it is shocking at just how many bullets you can locate with a pulse machine at that place that the VLFs give absolutely zero indication of something being in the ground.  And not all of the bullets are deep either.  It's always an eye opener for sure.  But....was quite impressed with the D2 today.  Of course there's no telling how many I walked over and had no idea of them.

[F350Platinum]

Dan, great impressions. 👍 I don't have any particular dog in the fight with the M-core and the D2, I like it when someone goes out and justifies what is now over a $2,000 investment in the D2. Thank you!

The Deus is king SMF/VLF in Virginia, and looks like it's here to stay

[abenson]

Good report Daniel. Never really cared for the performance of my Equinox at Culpeper, VA. Took my D2 to Culpeper last fall and thought it did OK as far as VLF'S go. I had not planned on taking my Manticore this Spring and now you have confirmed my suspicion that it would be much like the Equinox.

[fishersari]

I hope minelab do something on manticore performance at hot ground in future update..

[JCR]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I appreciate hearing from someone that is experienced with similar hot dirt conditions like I have.  I have done the same thing using the Tarsacci to find the targets for testing the settings on the Legend. It has really helped to fine tune what works best.    Did you do better with the new coil & Dimitar's settings?   Was that the New Zealand bad dirt coil Keith Southern has referred to?

[Daniel Tn]

55 minutes ago, JCR said:

Thanks for the detailed reply. I appreciate hearing from someone that is experienced with similar hot dirt conditions like I have.  I have done the same thing using the Tarsacci to find the targets for testing the settings on the Legend. It has really helped to fine tune what works best.    Did you do better with the new coil & Dimitar's settings?   Was that the New Zealand bad dirt coil Keith Southern has referred to?

That was actually the coil Dimitar sent to us to try. No, it did not seem to help any.  In disc mode there were too many high pinging false signals. The only way to really hunt with it was to use the Mix mode audio and listen for the all metal "ramp up" sound to a target.  The Deus 1 was horrible at this place which is why I really was surprised at the Deus 2.  The best VLF machine for it though is still the F75/T2 with aftermarket coil.  A coil like the 13" Ultimate and those machines in Motion All Metal is probably the deepest I've had there for a VLF.  You can't go by ID though...you have to just hunt by audio and dig a lot of iron. The trick to it was that 90° turn in which you could pass up most nails and wire by simply ignoring the rapid double beeps.  The bullets would sound good all the way around but the ID might only be an 11-13 down in the iron range.  Even though that was a great technique, it still pales in comparison to how much superior a pulse machine is in dirt like that.  I'm glad not all of our dirt here is that severe. If it were, a pulse machine would be all I would have. Fortunately it's just places here and there and more common in fields than in woods.  I was hoping the Manticore would be better than that, as it seems to really handle well in our more common soils.  

[palzynski]

I am not surprised by this , I have done many side by side field test comparisons between a Deus1 and an Equinox in my area ( North of France ) . This area is infested with irons from the Roman ages to the 1st WW shell fragments . At each time the Deus1 was performing ( much ) better than the Equinox , either with a 11 or the 8 small coil ...  

My soil is moderately mineralized then I think that its the iron disc signal processing management that explains the difference, rather than the mineralization level . Just my opinion ..

 

 

 

[abenson]

25 minutes ago, Daniel Tn said:

That was actually the coil Dimitar sent to us to try. No, it did not seem to help any.  In disc mode there were too many high pinging false signals. The only way to really hunt with it was to use the Mix mode audio and listen for the all metal "ramp up" sound to a target.  The Deus 1 was horrible at this place which is why I really was surprised at the Deus 2.  The best VLF machine for it though is still the F75/T2 with aftermarket coil.  A coil like the 13" Ultimate and those machines in Motion All Metal is probably the deepest I've had there for a VLF.  You can't go by ID though...you have to just hunt by audio and dig a lot of iron. The trick to it was that 90° turn in which you could pass up most nails and wire by simply ignoring the rapid double beeps.  The bullets would sound good all the way around but the ID might only be an 11-13 down in the iron range.  Even though that was a great technique, it still pales in comparison to how much superior a pulse machine is in dirt like that.  I'm glad not all of our dirt here is that severe. If it were, a pulse machine would be all I would have. Fortunately it's just places here and there and more common in fields than in woods.  I was hoping the Manticore would be better than that, as it seems to really handle well in our more common soils.  

I had the same issue with the Tarsacci, gave it two chances and eventually sold them both. Only way to run it in hot dirt is in mixed mode and circle the target. The audio just doesn't do it for me, so much easier just to use a PI. I got to the point that it was easier just to grab a PI when the targets got out of reach for a VLF.