Gold Detector Competition, We Are All Winners. Is Something Coming Gpx-8000?

[strick]

2 hours ago, deathray said:

 You have any friends at a salvage yard?😁

Breaking Bad? 😃

[deathray]

3 hours ago, strick said:

Breaking Bad? 😃

Yep, ha. Can you imagine, taking one of those HUGE magnets, to a mining camp? That would be awesome!

[Doc]

15 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Engineer at Minelab smacking hand to forehead “Discrimination! Of course, just add discrimination! Why didn’t we think of that!!”

A tad easier said than done.

Steve, Minelab makes mine sweeping metal detectors with Ground Penetrating Radar.  They make the Pro-Find 35 pinpointer with discrimination, and you're saying adding discrimination is beyond their capabilities?  Funny!  They had discrimination in the SD2200 all the way through every iteration of pulse induction up to and including the GPX5000.

And while Minelab techs are amazing, they don't think of everything.  Again for years and years I have asked the simple question regarding the lower rods for the SD2100 through the GPX5000 vs. the Excalibur.  Drill the same holes put the button in the same place.  This isn't rocket science.

The lower rod is EXACTLY the same with the SD/GP/GPX series and with the Excalibur, with one small difference, on the lower rods for the pulse induction machine the length adjustment button is on the bottom of the lower rod, to match the adjustment holes in the upper rod.  On the Excalibur the adjustment button is on the side and the adjustment holes are on the side of the upper rod.

So instead of drilling the holes on the Excalibur on the bottom of the upper rod, like the PI machines they continue to drill it on the side.  This means a dealer has to carry two different lower rods, the only difference being that the button is in a different place.  First thing I have to do with Excal lower rods is put a bright orange sticker on them so I don't mistakenly send the wrong rod out to a customer who is looking for a lower rod for a PI machine.

So while Minelab techs are smacking their hands to their foreheads, maybe they could rectify some of the smaller things. 

Do you think it was a hand to forehead moment when someone said, "Oh boy...

"Because the detector is generally used in an outdoor, open environment, the speaker plays the audio with a high volume to account for wind and other ambient noises. Due to the highly sensitive nature of the GPX6000, in some circumstances the speaker itself may introduce detector noise that sounds like interference."

That's from Minelab's own website.  If a speaker introduces detector noise, that sounds like interference.  ISN'T THAT INTERFERENCE?  What is this a riddle?  "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there, does it still make a sound?"  

"If there is detector noise in the sound of your detector caused by anything other than the internal speaker it's interference.  If the noise in the detector is caused by the speaker it's not interference, IT's JUST  DAMN ANNOYING." 

Remember my original post was my musing about what it would take to interest people in a GPZ8000, my contention is it would have to be lighter and if they would add in discrimination that would be a plus.  It's what customers want that sells machines.  While there is no competition for the GPZ7000 as Phrunt pointed out, that's not the point.  The point is that those who wanted a GPZ7000 already have one and sales have peaked long ago.  I have had mine such day 1, but what would it take for me to give it up and buy a new machine?  Minelab is looking for new sales.  They know that there are a group of early adopters out there that prospecting is their passion and if Minelab makes it, those folks will buy it.

I would estimate, that 75% of current GPZ7000 owners would but a new version GPZ machine providing it had features such as being lite and had discrimination, any other enhancements would only increase that percentage.  Then again I am looking at what I would want.  I'm almost 74.  Six titanium pins in my hips, one joint in my elbow removed, torn rotator cuff repaired, Cervical degenerative joint disease, 5 level cervical nerves surgically cut to relieve pain... so something lighter would be a real selling point for me.

I mean it's like the bass fisherman that has the best rod and reel money can buy, and it's his/her passion.  They enter every bass fishing tournament, they have the best of everything.  Do you think they can resist the next best innovation that comes along in a rod and reel?

All these old detectors come with rods.  Does that keep people from buying carbon fiber replacement rods?  NOPE.  They buy them because they are lighter, or maybe because they are longer, or have more adjustment holes, or maybe just because they look cool.  Minelab might miss a few things, but not many.  However, one thing I think they do have dialed in is the buying cycles of their consumers for the different markets.

My gut says, a newer GPZ is on the horizon, if not later this year, certainly by next.

I heard a conversation at a dealer conference in which a Metal Detector with GPR was being discussed with one of the higher ups at Minelab.  The question was whether that would ever be available for the hobby market, especially for relic hunting.  These were two dealers who were speaking with the Minelab exec.  The Minelab exec said, "I doubt it.  It would have to have a price tag of around $20,000."  The dealers said, "We have customers who would gladly pay that."  The Minelab exec, looked surprised and said, "Really?"  But I could see the wheels start to grind.  So you never know what Minelab will surprise us with next.

Doc

[Steve Herschbach]

I’m sure I wouldn’t know Doc. Always good to hear from you, my best to you and yours. 

[Gold Ryder]

16 hours ago, Doc said:

Steve, Minelab makes mine sweeping metal detectors with Ground Penetrating Radar.  They make the Pro-Find 35 pinpointer with discrimination, and you're saying adding discrimination is beyond their capabilities?  Funny!  They had discrimination in the SD2200 all the way through every iteration of pulse induction up to and including the GPX5000.

And while Minelab techs are amazing, they don't think of everything.  Again for years and years I have asked the simple question regarding the lower rods for the SD2100 through the GPX5000 vs. the Excalibur.  Drill the same holes put the button in the same place.  This isn't rocket science.

The lower rod is EXACTLY the same with the SD/GP/GPX series and with the Excalibur, with one small difference, on the lower rods for the pulse induction machine the length adjustment button is on the bottom of the lower rod, to match the adjustment holes in the upper rod.  On the Excalibur the adjustment button is on the side and the adjustment holes are on the side of the upper rod.

So instead of drilling the holes on the Excalibur on the bottom of the upper rod, like the PI machines they continue to drill it on the side.  This means a dealer has to carry two different lower rods, the only difference being that the button is in a different place.  First thing I have to do with Excal lower rods is put a bright orange sticker on them so I don't mistakenly send the wrong rod out to a customer who is looking for a lower rod for a PI machine.

So while Minelab techs are smacking their hands to their foreheads, maybe they could rectify some of the smaller things. 

Do you think it was a hand to forehead moment when someone said, "Oh boy...

"Because the detector is generally used in an outdoor, open environment, the speaker plays the audio with a high volume to account for wind and other ambient noises. Due to the highly sensitive nature of the GPX6000, in some circumstances the speaker itself may introduce detector noise that sounds like interference."

That's from Minelab's own website.  If a speaker introduces detector noise, that sounds like interference.  ISN'T THAT INTERFERENCE?  What is this a riddle?  "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there, does it still make a sound?"  

"If there is detector noise in the sound of your detector caused by anything other than the internal speaker it's interference.  If the noise in the detector is caused by the speaker it's not interference, IT's JUST  DAMN ANNOYING." 

Remember my original post was my musing about what it would take to interest people in a GPZ8000, my contention is it would have to be lighter and if they would add in discrimination that would be a plus.  It's what customers want that sells machines.  While there is no competition for the GPZ7000 as Phrunt pointed out, that's not the point.  The point is that those who wanted a GPZ7000 already have one and sales have peaked long ago.  I have had mine such day 1, but what would it take for me to give it up and buy a new machine?  Minelab is looking for new sales.  They know that there are a group of early adopters out there that prospecting is their passion and if Minelab makes it, those folks will buy it.

I would estimate, that 75% of current GPZ7000 owners would but a new version GPZ machine providing it had features such as being lite and had discrimination, any other enhancements would only increase that percentage.  Then again I am looking at what I would want.  I'm almost 74.  Six titanium pins in my hips, one joint in my elbow removed, torn rotator cuff repaired, Cervical degenerative joint disease, 5 level cervical nerves surgically cut to relieve pain... so something lighter would be a real selling point for me.

I mean it's like the bass fisherman that has the best rod and reel money can buy, and it's his/her passion.  They enter every bass fishing tournament, they have the best of everything.  Do you think they can resist the next best innovation that comes along in a rod and reel?

All these old detectors come with rods.  Does that keep people from buying carbon fiber replacement rods?  NOPE.  They buy them because they are lighter, or maybe because they are longer, or have more adjustment holes, or maybe just because they look cool.  Minelab might miss a few things, but not many.  However, one thing I think they do have dialed in is the buying cycles of their consumers for the different markets.

My gut says, a newer GPZ is on the horizon, if not later this year, certainly by next.

I heard a conversation at a dealer conference in which a Metal Detector with GPR was being discussed with one of the higher ups at Minelab.  The question was whether that would ever be available for the hobby market, especially for relic hunting.  These were two dealers who were speaking with the Minelab exec.  The Minelab exec said, "I doubt it.  It would have to have a price tag of around $20,000."  The dealers said, "We have customers who would gladly pay that."  The Minelab exec, looked surprised and said, "Really?"  But I could see the wheels start to grind.  So you never know what Minelab will surprise us with next.

Doc

Doc- Nugget Finder is on to something with these new coils for the 6000.  If the bigger coil supposedly incoming is as sensitive, quiet and smooth as this 12x7. Id be hard pressed with as light as the 6000 is to feel like buying what will probably be a +$10,000 machine soley based on weight.   I am getting the tiniest of nuggets now and good depth on bigger targets.    So a GPZ 8000 in my book better blow the 6000 and 7000 out of the water on depth and have some discrimination control above and beyond the 7000. Otherwise why bother except to pound your chest and say "Ive got the newest technology".   

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Gold Ryder said:

Doc- Nugget Finder is on to something with these new coils for the 6000.  If the bigger coil supposedly incoming is as sensitive, quiet and smooth as this 12x7. Id be hard pressed with as light as the 6000 is to feel like buying what will probably be a +$10,000 machine soley based on weight.   I am getting the tiniest of nuggets now and good depth on bigger targets.    So a GPZ 8000 in my book better blow the 6000 and 7000 out of the water on depth and have some discrimination control above and beyond the 7000. Otherwise why bother except to pound your chest and say "Ive got the newest technology".   

Gold Ryder,

No doubt the GPX6000 has become a very popular machine and those using it are really happy with it.  However die-hard GPZ7000 users like their GPZ7000's.  The ones that have abandoned their GPZ7000's for the GPX6000's have told me they did it because they are willing to sacrifice a bit of performance for a lighter weight machine.  But let's not forget, the GPX6000 is a pulse induction machine.  The GPZ7000 is NOT a pulse induction machine.  It's a different kind of machine.

So if the people who have abandoned their GPZ7000 for the GPX6000 recognize that there is a performance difference, but the weight was a determining factor.  I am assuming that if the GPZ7000 was as lite as the GPX6000 they would not have changed machines.

I also know of my customers who have a GPZ7000 who purchased a GPX6000 and used it, and ended up selling the GPX6000 because they wanted the performance of the GPZ, and the difference in weight did not outweigh the performance issue.  So it's a matter of what an individual values the most.

So that is what forms my opinion that a lighter GPZ machine would appeal to some detectorists.

Doc
 

[phrunt]

The GPZ with a small coil like an 8" or 10" to me is a light machine.   The 6000 with a big coil even the Coiltek 14x9" or 14" DD is a heavy machine and I find the GPZ much lighter to use than the GPX with one of the bigger coils.

A lot of the weight problems with the GPZ are due to coil restrictions.

Put an 8" coil on the GPZ at 835 grams for the coil, a CTX battery and the machine is so light.  If you don't use the CTX battery you work harder to keep the coil on the ground 🙂 

[Gold Catcher]

We discussed this before: who does'nt want discrimimation? But is this really possible on a high end gold detector with adequate reliability at the detecting edge? We all know it's not. If the 8000 would come with a discrimimation feature, it would probanly just raise eye browses, knowing that discrimimation paired with high end performance is technically just not possible. It would be a feature that most serious detectorists, who spend 10k or more on a gold detector, would never trust or use anyhow. It would just be viewed as a cheap sales pitch to satisfy beginners in the field who think this would be a valuable tool when searching for gold. I doubt ML would want to loose their reputation for their flag ship detector being at professional grade.

GC

[phrunt]

This is not my gold but a friends gold, this was found because a detector that had discrimination (Equinox) was used in a very trashy area.  No it's not NZ gold unfortunately.

The GPZ was useless here, as of course the 6000 as there is just so much trash, however now the person who found this using the Equinox will be taking advantage of the Axiom and it's discrimination and increased depth over the Equinox to hopefully find more.  In times like these even rudimentary discrimination like the GPX 5000 has is better than a detector with none at all so the Axiom may end up very valuable.   Having the option there is much better than not having it at all, even if it is rather basic.

[Gold Catcher]

I think these are rather extreme examples. VLF discrimimation can work in certain cases but I dont think this will ever be achieved for any PI or ZVT at depth. Why not just stick with the Nox then and forget all the high end detectors? Did ML really just omit the discrimination on the 6000 because they want to keep it for a next gen gpz? 😁