Manticore Beach Hunters - Need Some Help

[strick]

21 hours ago, schoolofhardNox said:

So my problem is that when manual balancing, the ground balance always goes to 0. It never moves when I pump it or if I manually raise it (or decrease it) I don't notice a difference. Then I bob it up and down and it returns to 0. On nice sand I would imagine 0 is fine, but on this black sand mix, it has never read 0 before, but now it does. 

 

Does the machine quiet down as you pump it? Doesn't matter what the number ends up as.... as long as it quiets down as you pump it. If it is not ground balancing (quieting down during the pump) well then I would say either the ground is too hot or something is wrong with the machine..I have seen are places where the black sand is so hot that it's impossible to get the machine to balance correctly. The other thing I would add is if you are getting excessive ground noise try turning the sensitivity down...sorry Clive I could not resist..

strick 

[schoolofhardNox]

On 3/3/2023 at 7:20 PM, strick said:

Does the machine quiet down as you pump it? Doesn't matter what the number ends up as.... as long as it quiets down as you pump it. If it is not ground balancing (quieting down during the pump) well then I would say either the ground is too hot or something is wrong with the machine..I have seen are places where the black sand is so hot that it's impossible to get the machine to balance correctly. The other thing I would add is if you are getting excessive ground noise try turning the sensitivity down...sorry Clive I could not resist..

strick 

When I ground balance (auto- pumping), it stays at zero, even though I am on a mix of black sand. As a reference, the Nox would read -9 on this sand. I know they are different, but the Manticore still sounds off on the ground with the iron grunting sounds.  Most targets I dug that day were under 4", unless it was a can.  Maybe it's just this beach. EMI is not very harsh here, and the detector while stationary, runs quiet. Todd Irvine has some good videos on the Manticore. Here's one where he does not go with the "zero theory" like on the Nox. I realize he's in a plowed field and not a beach, but the ground response is the same as I am getting when he purposely sets the machine to zero.  I guess my disappointment would be that I would have to manually go through the ground balance numbers and hope one of them quiets the ground. I'm not understanding why the pumping of the coil (auto), does not find a ground balance number that gets rid of the grunts. It just stays at zero. These beaches are not severe enough to have drop the sensitivity down to the low teens or single digits. My beaches are mild compared to some of the black sand beaches out there.  Anyways, thanks everyone for the suggestions a thanks to those that provided their ground balance numbers when they balance.

[okara gold]

I always do an auto GB on the wet salt sand where i hunt and it usually settles around 12 - 15. This is in Florida on the west coast. No black sand but  heavy salt accumulation. I have gone into the dryer sand area and re - ground balanced in auto and almost every time it settles back to 0. Also if the are is a heavy accumulation of shells / seaweed on the higher slope of the wet sand the GB is usually higher… around 18 - 20. If your machine doesn’t vary from 0 in various conditions then something doesn’t sound right. 

[midalake]

37 minutes ago, schoolofhardNox said:

I'm not understanding why the pumping of the coil (auto), does not find a ground balance number that gets rid of the grunts. It just stays at zero. These beaches are not severe enough to have drop the sensitivity down to the low teens or single digits.

Maybe silly to ask?
Why do you not run tracking GB? Minelab recommends this at a salt beach. I ALWAYS run tracking and have been very successful.  
It also allows the machine to adjust for those 20'-40' spots that have a different black sand content. 

In fact, I run tracking on the D2 as well. 

[schoolofhardNox]

1 hour ago, okara gold said:

I always do an auto GB on the wet salt sand where i hunt and it usually settles around 12 - 15. This is in Florida on the west coast. No black sand but  heavy salt accumulation. I have gone into the dryer sand area and re - ground balanced in auto and almost every time it settles back to 0. Also if the are is a heavy accumulation of shells / seaweed on the higher slope of the wet sand the GB is usually higher… around 18 - 20. If your machine doesn’t vary from 0 in various conditions then something doesn’t sound right. 

I'll give that a try and see if the numbers change. Thanks

1 hour ago, midalake said:

Maybe silly to ask?
Why do you not run tracking GB? Minelab recommends this at a salt beach. I ALWAYS run tracking and have been very successful.  
It also allows the machine to adjust for those 20'-40' spots that have a different black sand content. 

In fact, I run tracking on the D2 as well. 

That's what I was running originally. That's when I noticed the excessive grunts which lead to trying to do the Auto GB and then Manual GB. If I run tracking again, can I see the GB# by entering the GB mode,  or are you not able to see the GB number?  On a different note, I watch a video that says Minelab's tracking is slower to adjust than the Deus tracking? Do you ever notice the Deus handling different ground conditions faster?

[midalake]

23 minutes ago, schoolofhardNox said:

That's what I was running originally. That's when I noticed the excessive grunts which lead to trying to do the Auto GB and then Manual GB.

I cannot say we noticed excessive grunts? Possible your set-up or iron volume, your tone selection or even ferrous presets?? Does it grunt in all modes? We ran Seawater and Beach Deep.

27 minutes ago, schoolofhardNox said:

can I see the GB# by entering the GB mode,  or are you not able to see the GB number?

 I do not know?

27 minutes ago, schoolofhardNox said:

On a different note, I watch a video that says Minelab's tracking is slower to adjust than the Deus tracking? Do you ever notice the Deus handling different ground conditions faster?

I see no difference in machine tracking recovery time from the Equinox, D2, or Manticore. 
 

 

 

[cjc]

On 3/2/2023 at 9:14 PM, schoolofhardNox said:

I need some of the beach hunters that have a black sand mix in their sand, to try something for me if they can. I'm having a problem with the ground noise on the Manticore in the beach modes. I run the screen wide open so that all targets are heard, but the ground noise is more common than the actual iron. It was suggested that I need ground balancing. I usually run tracking ground balance, but I have done it manually also. I prefer tracking. So my problem is that when manual balancing, the ground balance always goes to 0. It never moves when I pump it or if I manually raise it (or decrease it) I don't notice a difference. Then I bob it up and down and it returns to 0. On nice sand I would imagine 0 is fine, but on this black sand mix, it has never read 0 before, but now it does. Can some of you try the beach modes and see if you actually get a negative (or positive) number when you manually balance your machines?  I've included a picture of the sand that I have here. The machine responding to the ground noise directly contradicts the 0 reading I am getting.  Thanks.

Seems to me like the machine is GB'ing the overall environment okay but you are hitting peaks that are noisy.  You might try a manual overtune. pg 54.

cjc

[schoolofhardNox]

So an update on the ground balancing. I wanted to try another beach I know better and see if the numbers change when I ground balance. I did not change any settings or factory reset the beach mode, as I wanted to compare beaches with the same settings first. I hit the wet slope and auto balanced the machine and it went down to -9, just as my Equinox does. I then put it into tracking and detected for a while. I went into ground balance mode and saw that the setting it settled on was -6. I checked every once in a while and it remained at -6. Never did it go to zero. On dry sand it bounced from -3 to +2 but settled mostly in the low negatives. I also did not experience any of the grunting ground noise that I had at that other beach. I had a wide open screen and sensitivity was set between 20 - 21, which is where the machine seems comfortable at. So not sure what's up on that other beach other than the fact that the sand was pushed around by the bulldozer. Thanks for all the advice and GB settings.

[Rc2125]

Schoolofhardnox,,      had the same exact stuff going on with mine, at one certain huge beach area, regardless of literally every setting/mode/sens/gb attempted, just endless iron sounds and couldn't hit anything deeper than like 4-5 inches. Freshwater, Lake Mi. Then, at other beaches I went to,  did just fine and very deep.  The problem beach had multi layers of magnetic sand all throughout, but never had any issues in the past there, with hundreds and hundreds of hours with nox & then legend.  Due to an injury, haven't been able to go back and experiment yet, will be several weeks. 

[schoolofhardNox]

11 hours ago, Rc2125 said:

Schoolofhardnox,,      had the same exact stuff going on with mine, at one certain huge beach area, regardless of literally every setting/mode/sens/gb attempted, just endless iron sounds and couldn't hit anything deeper than like 4-5 inches. Freshwater, Lake Mi. Then, at other beaches I went to,  did just fine and very deep.  The problem beach had multi layers of magnetic sand all throughout, but never had any issues in the past there, with hundreds and hundreds of hours with nox & then legend.  Due to an injury, haven't been able to go back and experiment yet, will be several weeks. 

Thanks. I'm sure by now everyone else thinks I'm nuts 😄 It will be interesting to see if that happens again when you go back. Hope you heal well. I won't be back at this beach anytime soon, but there are some sections of other beaches that give it limited depth trouble as well.  Maybe I'll try and see if single frequency has any effect.