Do Fertilizers Affect Performance?

[Digalicious]

I wasn't sure what forum to post this in.

Anyway, I found out that synthetic fertilizers contain not only salt, but metals. Can fertilizer contain enough salt and metals to affect ground balancing and/or performance?



 

[GB_Amateur]

Many commericial fertilzers contain salt?  True.  Wet salt can affect detector performance in a couple ways.  If rather uniformly distributed (as on wet saltwater beaches) they are effectively positive ground and can be compensated for with the right kind of detector.  Also, sporadic salt concentration can lead to falsing (see more below).

Many salts (including some fertilizers) contain metalic ions?  True.  However, ions in metalic form are typically only an issue when they fit the above description (component of a wet salt).  They are not conductive like pure and alloyed metals.

Usually (negative) ground mineralization is caused by ferromagnetic minerals and the key culprits are magnetite and maghemite.  These have natural, strong (relatively speaking) magnetic properties, not conductive properties.

BTW, cattle urine contains salts and can lead to falsing when the ground contains enough moisture.  And wet geologic salt spots in the desert (I'm thinking NW Nevada in particular as it's burned me) can also sound like good targets.  Maybe the most experienced desert gold detectorists can discern this from the width, etc. of the pulse and avoid digging?  Not I, that's evident.

[Digalicious]

Thank you for that GB.

I always ground balance, and the issue came up on another forum in which many UK farm field detectorists claimed they don't have to ground balance, because the ground had no mineralization. Yet, just as many said that on those farmer's fields, the ground balance can change from the time of year, and even change from field to field in the same area. I figured it's probably something changing in the ground, and to me that would be fertilizer, or even, as you said, salty pee 🙂

So without proper ground balancing on these sites, then that type of mineralization could very well be a cause for chattiness. Correct?

 

[GB_Amateur]

37 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

So without proper ground balancing on these sites, then... mineralization (from some agriculteral fertilizers) could very well be a cause for chattiness. Correct?

I've been responding more from scientific (laboratory) knowledge than practical (in-the-field detecting) experience.  I think it's time to hear from those who actually work those fertilized farm fields.  And I'm pretty sure some will do just that.

 

[EL NINO77]

7 hours ago, Digalicious said:

Thank you for that GB.

I always ground balance, and the issue came up on another forum in which many UK farm field detectorists claimed they don't have to ground balance, because the ground had no mineralization. Yet, just as many said that on those farmer's fields, the ground balance can change from the time of year, and even change from field to field in the same area. I figured it's probably something changing in the ground, and to me that would be fertilizer, or even, as you said, salty pee 🙂

So without proper ground balancing on these sites, then that type of mineralization could very well be a cause for chattiness. Correct?

 

First of all, you need to realize.. what does the conductivity of the terrain do... it is natural saline terrain, salt lakes, bogs,  coke,...sea water and beaches .. terrain that contains natural or artificial fertilizers, lawns - which are often fertilized, terrain containing certain the proportion of non-ferrous metals - these terrains have one thing in common - they produce a non-ferrous signal response with a very low VDI..

it's not just about the fact that this terrain gives a signal response for the detector,,, another disadvantage is that such a low-conductivity signal can merge with the signal of the target - and very strongly reduce... the actual VDI of the target...

If you also add to that a certain share of the iron response of the terrain in such a salty terrain, the deep signal can go to the iron zone of the VDI more quickly...

if we can prevent this..? and what do detector manufacturers do?.
  Mostly ... they use multi-frequency programs that have salt signal elimination in them ... and thus improve the stability ... of the detector detection ... and also the stability of the VDI target ... in such a conductive field ...

  if I want to find out which program has built-in salt elimination ... you can find it out very quickly with the help of an airtest with a compact CD - which simulates conductive terrain very well ... and is also widely used for calibrating detectors to eliminate the salt signal..

 I devised a certain test procedure.....I used this test procedure, but in addition to the test on the CD disc, I also expanded it to include a test on the DVD R disc. the detector sees a CD disc and a DVD-R disc, which has a stronger metal layer and imitates a stronger conductive response.

For example, you will quickly find out the differences between different programs, for example Park 1, Park 2, beach 1,2

If you don't have a multi-frequency detector... you can use 1 frequency detector with a variable frequency and quickly find out how the 1F frequency is the most resistant to the field's conductivity.

..One thing to be reminded here.... programs with salt elimination... definitely lose sensitivity to very small low-conductivity targets,,,!!!

-------------------------------------------

The program with the elimination of field conductivity...the detector does not detect the CD!!!

----------------------------------------------------

Program.. without elimination of field conductivity..

The detector detects both CD and DVD-R discs --- from a very long distance ... this means that this program will be significantly less stable in the conductive field..!!!

[Steve Herschbach]

6 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

 I'm just trying to find out if that type of mineralization would cause chattiness if the detector was not properly ground balanced to that mineralization.

Yes, and in the case of some machines, a salt setting may be needed in addition to proper ground balance.

[phrunt]

3 hours ago, Digalicious said:

I always ground balance, and the issue came up on another forum in which many UK farm field detectorists claimed they don't have to ground balance, because the ground had no mineralization. Yet, just as many said that on those farmer's fields, the ground balance can change from the time of year, and even change from field to field in the same area. I figured it's probably something changing in the ground, and to me that would be fertilizer, or even, as you said, salty pee 🙂
 

I can understand the UK people in mild soil not wanting to ground balance, for me at least in my mild soils I find on machines like the Equinox and Manticore, even the CTX I get more stable better Target ID's if I don't ground balance.

[Digalicious]

14 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I can understand the UK people in mild soil not wanting to ground balance, for me at least in my mild soils I find on machines like the Equinox and Manticore, even the CTX I get more stable better Target ID's if I don't ground balance.

Hi Phrunt.

How could you possibly get better target ID if you don't ground balance? I could be missing something obvious, but that doesn't seem to make technical sense 🙂

 

[phrunt]

1 minute ago, Digalicious said:

Hi Phrunt.

How could you possibly get better target ID if you don't ground balance? I could be missing something obvious, but that doesn't seem to make technical sense 🙂

 

Makes no sense to me either, I'll video it and show you.

[JCR]

Not added chemical fertilizer or natural saline ground, but some clays will exhibit a conductive response if moist enough.