Head To Head Comparisons

[Jeff McClendon]

24 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

You said head to head comparisons of in the ground targets. So, if you're not trying to determine what detector hits targets better, then what are you trying to determine by such a head to head comparison?

 

On 3/16/2023 at 9:14 AM, Johnnysalami1957 said:

We'll see how good the stone stock factory setup is for a beginner. None of this "If I do this it equals that stuff". 

 

[Digalicious]

Note the "how good" part Jeff.

"How good" meaning how they compare in hitting targets with the presets. All I'm saying is such a comparison with presets is meaningless. Well, it wouldn't be meaningless, because it would prove my point that presets are different on each detector, therefore skewing the results 😁

[Johnnysalami1957]

34 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

You said head to head comparisons of in the ground targets. So, if you're not trying to determine what detector hits targets better, then what are you trying to determine by such a head to head comparison?

Lable the machines a.d.c and d. Nobody knows what manufacturer they are. Use park 1 on each machine. See which machine hits more targets. This doesn't make any machine better. It's just an interpretation of the software presets that a,b,c and d have and close the manufacturer can come to a good setting. Personally don't buy on reviews because it seems that everyone has the best machine for them here. I buy the machine with the most adjustability. Even if never use them, I have the capability. I Need the lightest machine that will do the task I need it to do at any cost.  

[Jeff McClendon]

On 3/18/2023 at 9:25 AM, Digalicious said:

Note the "how good" part Jeff.

"How good" meaning how they compare in hitting targets with the presets. All I'm saying is such a comparison with presets is meaningless. Well, it wouldn't be meaningless, because it would prove my point that presets are different on each detector, therefore skewing the results 😁

So, I was at a group hunt today at a local park that was really trashy and has moderate to high iron mineralization.

A fellow I did not recognize had an Equinox 800 he was trying to detect with. The coil cable was flopping around, he had the shaft setup way to short for him and he didn't seem to have a clue. I felt sorry for him.

I started detecting nearby with my Deus 2 and hit a no brainer US quarter signal that looked to be 4" or so deep. I asked him to detect it with his 800. After I got him to understand that he had to swing the coil over the target (its a motion detector!!!!) his 800 simply wasn't hitting that 4" or so deep target even with the 11" coil. I asked him if I could check his settings. He was in Park 1, 10 kHz, tracking ground balance, sensitivity on 11, 50 tones and his recovery speed was on 8!!!!!!!!. I put Park 1 in Multi and his iron bias was on 6!!!! 

He said he had recently purchased this Nox 800 from a friend and had just turned it on without changing the settings at all.

Anyway, I asked him if I could reset Park 1 and he said yes. With Park 1 in default and ground grab ground balanced, he was able to easily hit that 4" quarter and all of the other coin targets that I detected for him and let him recover for the next 10 minutes or so. He left very happy.

 

I don't want to put words in the original posters mouth, but this was a great example of how most of these newer SMFs have some pretty good turn on and go default settings even for utter beginners, which is what this topic is really about from the way I read it.

 

[mn90403]

When I become a 'land hunter' rather than a beach hunter (95%) I normally use a default program like Park 1 or Field 1 and think they are just great with my 800.  On a few occasions I'll tweak Gold 1.  

[phrunt]

I find the original question to be a good one, yes the detectors have extra capability in some situations when you mess with settings, they can also be hindered if you mess with settings so people messing with them really need to know what they're doing.  The earlier GPX series with its crazy number of settings was a primary example of this, people could really mess themselves up and because of it find a lot less, I guess Minelab thought that too as the next model GPX is basically settings free, they went from too many to too little 🙂 Jeff also had a decent example above.

Now, as it stands if detecting basic targets with no obscure issues like a bunch of nails next to the target, a simple coin at a reasonable depth then every detector in it's equivalent default park mode or beach mode depending on location with whatever suitable coil on offer from the manufacturer as close as possible in size should be able to hit it equally well, if they can't then one is clearly better in it's default settings and this to me is a big positive, the defaults are the settings the designers of the detector thought were the best settings for that common situation and the adjustments are for if you strike a situation you need to change settings, So for general use in a standard situation like a normal park, a run of the mill beach or a typical gold field they should be the best settings to use aside from things like sensitivity obviously for finding standard targets.  Adjustments are done if the situation is out of the ordinary for whatever reason.

I quite like my Nox's default settings, it's served me very well entirely in defaults, some small changes sometimes when conditions dictate it but mostly I'm a defaulter and proud of it.

If I have to fiddle with a detector to make it hit targets others will hit in the default settings that concerns me.

For beginners they mostly just want to switch on and go so if they were to buy Detector A that performed great in its default settings in their environment they'll do much better than if they had of bought Detector B that needs fiddling to get the performance of Detector A.

Some might say just get them to buy a beginners detector with virtually no settings on it, that might seem sensible except then they've got to buy another detector later on as they grow out of it, for some that can happen very quickly, they also may miss out of many of the benefits the higher end machines provides even in default settings.

 

 

 

[Digalicious]

12 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

I don't want to put words in the original posters mouth, but this was a great example of how most of these newer SMFs have some pretty good turn on and go default settings for utter beginners, which is what this topic is really about from the way I read it.

 

Your example is valid if we are talking about the efficacy of the presets on one particular detector. But, one detector isn't what Johnny is referring to. He is referring to "a head to head comparison of the presets on various detectors to see how good they are".

I'm explaining that such a comparison doesn't mean very much, because the presets are different for each manufacturer. The OP mentions the Manti, Legend, D2, and 900. Iffy is showing exactly what I'm talking in his video comparisons between those detectors. He doesn't compare those detectors while leaving the presets "as is", because he knows it would be a pointless comparison if he did so. If he did so, his comment section would be filled with facepalms, and comments that his comparisons don't make sense.

In other words, a comparison as Johnny described, would only prove that the presets are different for each manufacturer. Nothing more.

 

[Jeff McClendon]

1 hour ago, Digalicious said:

 "a head to head comparison of the presets on various detectors to see how good they are".


In other words, a comparison as Johnny described, would only prove that the presets are different for each manufacturer. 
 

You left out three very important words in that quote........."for a beginner"

 

Your second sentence is something you are constantly harping on even though you don't own an Equinox 600,700,800 or 900, a Deus 2, or a Manticore and as far as I know, you have never used one whatsoever.

The Legend you own is a great detector.

So, do you have an opinion from experience about how the Legend would be for a beginner/inexperienced user instead of how the premise for this topic should be skewed in the direction you seem to want it to go?

 

 

 

[Digalicious]

6 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

You left out three very important words in that quote........."for a beginner"

 

Your second sentence is something you are constantly harping on even though you don't own an Equinox 600,700,800 or 900, a Deus 2, or a Manticore and as far as I know, you have never used one whatsoever.

The Legend you own is a great detector.

So, do you have an opinion from experience about how the Legend would be for a beginner/inexperienced user instead of how the premise for this topic should be skewed in the direction you seem to want it to go?

 

 

 

Whether or not the end user is a beginner or not, is irrelevant to my point.

What detector I own or have used, is irrelevant to my point.

I didn't skew anything. You're the one skewing things by providing arguments for the efficacy of one particular detector's presets, but that's not what the OP is referring to.

Are you able to refute my point, or will incessantly continue with your Red Herring arguments?




 

[Jeff McClendon]

1 minute ago, Digalicious said:

Whether or not the end user is a beginner or not, is irrelevant to my point.

What detector I own or have used, is irrelevant to my point.

I didn't skew anything. You're the one skewing things by providing arguments for the efficacy of one particular detector's presets, but that's not what the OP is referring to.

Are you able to refute my point, or will incessantly continue with your Red Herring arguments?




 

I am just trying to follow the original posters idea. I am not trying to argue about it, prove or disprove it since I have never touched a Manticore. I have been a “beginner” user of the original and new Equinox, Deus 2 and the Legend. 
 

I have also had the pleasure of helping other beginners learn how to use all of these detectors (except for the Manticore) during actual, in person, first time on live target hunts.