Please Help Identify. Can Not Find Anything Like It?

[Heb]

[Geologyhound]

A portion of the lower part of the broken surface appears to have the scalloped appearance typical of conchoidial fracturing.  This is something I would expect to find in fine grained silicates (like a agate, chert, or obsidian).  Yet, the top portion very definitely appears to have grains weathering out of the groundmass.

It scratches porcelain, so that rules out the typical hematite and ironstone nodules, but is the hard portion the grains?  I concur with Jasong the little streak color you got was from surface residue/oxidation.

Let’s rule out some other possibilities.  If you have any dilute hydrochloric acid, drip some one some of the surfaces.  If it fizzes, you have some calcite cementation. In that case, try to figure out exactly what fizzes.

[jasong]

Here's an old geologic map of the Sinai Peninsula. (Well, Egypt in general, but given Israel confict areas I assume...) Mostly quaternary sediments by where the Suez canal would later be. Things get a bit more interesting as you go further south and get into some chert bearing formations, some of them clastic (clastic means inclusion of various other pebbles, which your rock seems to have). Going further south of that it's a lot of precambrian and not likely where the rock came from. So, I'm guessing it came from somewhere around the middle to upper middle Sinai Peninsula?

Geographically that should narrow down known oddball concretion occurences. And this one is definitely odd enough to have a note somewhere if others like it are also found. If it was purely geologic in origin like a concretion, there would surely be more of them known and found already...they usually form in large numbers, non 1-off oddballs. Just 1 odd, totally unique concretion would be very unlikely (though not impossible I guess) it's another reason I can't shake the fossil thing or the idea it's not purely just geologic. I go do something else productive then start thinking about this rock again haha. Ok, now I'm really done for the night though. 

It's definitely a rock...but I'm staring at that thing trying to convince myself it's some thing created by a human too. But I can't see that yet. I suppose it's possible. That thing really looks like something out of an alien movie designed by HR Giger or something, which is partly why I think it's so cool. Looks strangely familiar yet unrecognizable. Almost like a lung lobe and trachea, but not. 

 

 

[Heb]

On 4/11/2023 at 4:29 AM, Geologyhound said:

A portion of the lower part of the broken surface appears to have the scalloped appearance typical of conchoidial fracturing.  This is something I would expect to find in fine grained silicates (like a agate, chert, or obsidian).  Yet, the top portion very definitely appears to have grains weathering out of the groundmass.

It scratches porcelain, so that rules out the typical hematite and ironstone nodules, but is the hard portion the grains?  I concur with Jasong the little streak color you got was from surface residue/oxidation.

Let’s rule out some other possibilities.  If you have any dilute hydrochloric acid, drip some one some of the surfaces.  If it fizzes, you have some calcite cementation. In that case, try to figure out exactly what fizzes.

Thanks so much I will attempt to conduct some of the experiments you have suggested. Learning lots here 😀

[Heb]

On 4/11/2023 at 5:40 AM, jasong said:

Here's an old geologic map of the Sinai Peninsula. (Well, Egypt in general, but given Israel confict areas I assume...) Mostly quaternary sediments by where the Suez canal would later be. Things get a bit more interesting as you go further south and get into some chert bearing formations, some of them clastic (clastic means inclusion of various other pebbles, which your rock seems to have). Going further south of that it's a lot of precambrian and not likely where the rock came from. So, I'm guessing it came from somewhere around the middle to upper middle Sinai Peninsula?

Geographically that should narrow down known oddball concretion occurences. And this one is definitely odd enough to have a note somewhere if others like it are also found. If it was purely geologic in origin like a concretion, there would surely be more of them known and found already...they usually form in large numbers, non 1-off oddballs. Just 1 odd, totally unique concretion would be very unlikely (though not impossible I guess) it's another reason I can't shake the fossil thing or the idea it's not purely just geologic. I go do something else productive then start thinking about this rock again haha. Ok, now I'm really done for the night though. 

It's definitely a rock...but I'm staring at that thing trying to convince myself it's some thing created by a human too. But I can't see that yet. I suppose it's possible. That thing really looks like something out of an alien movie designed by HR Giger or something, which is partly why I think it's so cool. Looks strangely familiar yet unrecognizable. Almost like a lung lobe and trachea, but not. 

 

 

Correct Egypt is where it was found 😉 . I want it to be alien so badly 😂😂 I promis to let you all know once I get something definitive 

[blackjack]

On 4/9/2023 at 11:59 AM, mn90403 said:

I've seen two faces in it and I'm sure there are more!

Dam it, I can only see one, in profile.

[jasong]

13 hours ago, Heb said:

Correct Egypt is where it was found 😉 . I want it to be alien so badly 😂😂 I promis to let you all know once I get something definitive 

I showed the photos to a couple researchers at a regional geology/paleontology museum. They came to the same conclusions as me basically: fossil-like, but not quite a fossil, concretion-like, but not quite a concretion, anthropogenic but not quite anthropogentic. Also agreed it was some clastic chert type rock. But the conclusion was "no idea". 

If it wasn't for the weathering rind and difference in rind between top (presumably exposed to sun/water at different times front/back) and the bottom, I'd be leaning more towards modern human carved. But the weathering indicates some serious age and sitting out in the elements (even appears to have some semi dendritic growths on the broken part), and the lines are so smooth and organic/natural that it's hard to see that being a carving by any ancient humans, no tool marks, and chert is very hard so it'd be difficult to work smoothly without conchoidal fracturing while carving with any ancient tools not from the modern era. I suppose it could be some CNC milled modern hoax type thing, but chert isn't easy to artificially weather quickly, and the weathering on it appears legit.

It's one of those things that you kinda need to examine in hand, with a loupe/microscope, to look for more hints, I think. Firstly, eliminating anything made by human tooling/paints/etc. Do you know the finder personally and are sure it was found in the middle of the desert for sure?

That area has been peopled for almost longer than anywhere else on the planet, it's a small area, so it's hard to imagine there are concretions like this laying around unnoticed for millennia. 

Whatever it is, I'm not often completely stumped, and if I could give a little emoji reward for the most intriguing "what is this rock" posted here so far, this would get it. 😅

 

 

[Heb]

8 hours ago, jasong said:

I showed the photos to a couple researchers at a regional geology/paleontology museum. They came to the same conclusions as me basically: fossil-like, but not quite a fossil, concretion-like, but not quite a concretion, anthropogenic but not quite anthropogentic. Also agreed it was some clastic chert type rock. But the conclusion was "no idea". 

If it wasn't for the weathering rind and difference in rind between top (presumably exposed to sun/water at different times front/back) and the bottom, I'd be leaning more towards modern human carved. But the weathering indicates some serious age and sitting out in the elements (even appears to have some semi dendritic growths on the broken part), and the lines are so smooth and organic/natural that it's hard to see that being a carving by any ancient humans, no tool marks, and chert is very hard so it'd be difficult to work smoothly without conchoidal fracturing while carving with any ancient tools not from the modern era. I suppose it could be some CNC milled modern hoax type thing, but chert isn't easy to artificially weather quickly, and the weathering on it appears legit.

It's one of those things that you kinda need to examine in hand, with a loupe/microscope, to look for more hints, I think. Firstly, eliminating anything made by human tooling/paints/etc. Do you know the finder personally and are sure it was found in the middle of the desert for sure?

That area has been peopled for almost longer than anywhere else on the planet, it's a small area, so it's hard to imagine there are concretions like this laying around unnoticed for millennia. 

Whatever it is, I'm not often completely stumped, and if I could give a little emoji reward for the most intriguing "what is this rock" posted here so far, this would get it. 😅

 

 

The mystery needs to be solved! Thank you for checking with some other experts im intrigued more than ever. It’s literally been used as a door stop so I’m glad I’ve finally started to try and work out this little puzzle. My dad actually found it himself whilst out on a safari trip. I’m trying to get it looked at the British Museum but it’s a bit techy, they want papers as documentary evidence. I guess there are ethical issues and implications if it was a valuable Ancient Egyptian find. So my next bet would be some kind of geology lab? Someone from a fossil forum also suggested the national history museum as they believe it could be a particularly impressive example of banded flint and they would be interested however he said he wasn’t sure and wanted to promise to let me know the outcome of the mystery once solved haha

[jasong]

If they ID it and it turns out to be something fairly normal, I still want to buy it. I need that thing in my life. 😁

Gun to my head, if I had to take one guess, I'd say it's just a very unique and strange chert nodule. 

Potentially the outside patterning is some sort of cast of...something. I've found chert nodules that are cast into all sorts of odd shapes, including limb casts. I'm officially out of ideas though, and a chert nodule perhaps exhibiting some sort of surficial cast feature is my final answer.  Looking forward to a definitive answer if you get one. 

[jasong]

Ok! Mystery solved after half a year - these are called "Westerstetten" patterns and often - as guessed here - occur as chert concretions or nodules. Or, as this book says - are chert nodules with secondary growth.

Still, there is no clear concensus on formation mechanism it seems.

"

Here is another from Tennessee. Another geologist mentioned these patterns in reference to this rock, and I think he is spot on, and it's also how to classify the mystery rock OP posted to this forum.

Another example (diagram source): https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/87174-unidentified-object-from-east-tennessee/

Wiki: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westerstetten-Muster