New Update

[Luis]

I have heard that an update for the manticore is ready.  He is going to fix something about the languages and the beach program.

[Geordiedan]

This was posted on one of the UK forums - a post from Facebook where a user received a reply from ML confirming a new software update is on the way:

 

"Okay, so here it goes...my first impressions are that I am having problems deciphering the language of the Manticore in heavy iron so far. My main issue is that the Manticore will constantly produce, stable sounding (with stable VDIs), 2-way repeatable signals, with no Iron grunts or red VDIs. However, adjusting the orientation of my swing on said targets by merely a few degrees will then produce iron grunts, red VDIs irregular target-trace shapes, etc. Sometimes, the iron targets will even sound good through nearly a 90 degree rotation. What this means is that every single target that sounds good, I am having to more so thoroughly interrogate, much more so than I ever had to on the Equinox. I am not having noise issues and I am running my detector at 20 sensitivity or below. I have even bumped the sensitivity down as low as 10 to determine if that impacts anything - and it doesn't. I am coming from an Equinox 800. I will admit that the area I'm detecting is extremely challenging but I never experienced this behaviour with my Equinox. What are everyone's thoughts or experiences? I've only been out a few times so far so obviously no final judgment has been made but I wanted to post my impressions so far and reach out for any feedback. Thanks in advance!"

"Excessive Falsing in Iron - Minelab Official Response.
I contacted Minelab and was happy to receive a very thorough reply:

***The MANTICORE is a very different detector to the EQUINOX, despite some similarities. It was specifically designed with heavily hunted-out sites in mind, which are now much more common for most detectorists, and where finds are becoming increasingly sparse. It is intentionally much more aggressive than the EQUINOX 800, and is designed to stop users on iffy detections more often, but also to provide the user with more information on which to decide whether to dig. We would expect an experienced MANTICORE user to dig iron more often than with an EQUINOX 800, but over time should also find some targets that an EQUINOX 800 might overlook. The consequence is that the MANTICORE can be a more challenging user experience, and we find that most experienced EQUINOX 800 users need to go through a period of adaption to get the most out of a MANTICORE.

Heavy iron sites like you describe are very common and a lot of users see this, even more so at European sites where habitation extends back thousands of years in some cases. Some users (more so in North America than Europe it seems) are having particular difficulty with iron. Certain types of iron, combined with low soil mineralisation like what you describe (and is quite common in North America) seem to make this the most difficult. (Interestingly, users in higher soil mineralisation seem to have much less difficulty.)

Iron targets often exhibit non-ferrous falsing when the coil is off to the side of the target, particularly when mixed with some ground noise (for example from weakly mineralised ground). With the MANTICORE, the signals are stronger, and so what sounded like a choppy audio response on the 800, can be a stronger, clearer 2 way response on the MANTICORE. However, we find that in almost every case, when the coil is over the center of the target, the response is ferrous.

You might say that the EQUINOX 800 choppy audio response is better in the case of iron falsing, and perhaps this is so for iron falsing. But iron falsing is very difficult to distinguish from co-mingled targets, and the EQUINOX 800 will also give you a choppy response on many co-mingled targets, and in many cases won’t be enough to stop you.

We can suggest a couple of things that may help. In the short term, on sites like this, I recommend using Pinpoint Mode to locate the centre of a target and quickly checking it again in detection mode with the coil centered on the target. A consistent ferrous response on the center of the target which turns to non-ferrous off to the side is a giveaway that you have iron falsing. A couple of seconds in Pinpoint mode is one of the best ways to distinguish between 2 targets, and one piece of falsing iron. Many experienced users don’t think they need to use Pinpoint, but it can give you more than just target location information.

You can also expect a software update in the near future that will provide a setting that helps you distinguish audio signals that have a good chance of being iron falsing. I believe you will find this update will significantly help you in the scenario you describe, and make detecting much easier.***"

 

[Medina]

can confirm

figured out a couple of the suggestions on my own, namely hit the pin pointer, then focus on that spot. 

Sooo wanted to run AT HC but honestly better results (ohio) with AT general and keeping sens down to 20+-2

going to hit a heavily park today, need more clad/trash/jewelry to learn this thing before wasting precious hours/permission on a very interesting relics site we have 

[GB_Amateur]

On 4/19/2023 at 11:45 AM, Luis said:

I have heard that an update for the manticore is ready.  He is going to fix something about the languages and the beach program.

7 hours ago, Geordiedan said:

You can also expect a software update in the near future that will provide a setting that helps you distinguish audio signals that have a good chance of being iron falsing.  (Minelab response to Facebook question.)

Well, something may be be coming soon, but 'near future' is vague enough (kinda like them saying the Manticore accessory coil are coming soon 😏) that IMO we shouldn't get too excited yet.  But that ML response on Facebook (quoted by Geordiedan) is a very interesting read.

[Chase Goldman]

Interesting statement by ML from the above:

We would expect an experienced MANTICORE user to dig iron more often than with an EQUINOX 800, but over time should also find some targets that an EQUINOX 800 might overlook. The consequence is that the MANTICORE can be a more challenging user experience, and we find that most experienced EQUINOX 800 users need to go through a period of adaption to get the most out of a MANTICORE.

Basically ML is saying learn how to use your Manticore before you start complaing about iron falsing and the Manticore will detect targets the Equinox will "overlook".  Does that mean targets that won't register either audio or TID in iron on the Nox will be detected by Manticore or is it more nuanced then that?

[GB_Amateur]

2 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Does that mean targets that won't register either audio or TID in iron on the Nox at may be detected by Manticore or is it more nuanced then that?

Please elaborate as I'm having trouble understanding and it seems at first (and second) glance there are alternate interpretations to your question.  (Or maybe that was your intent.  )

[Chase Goldman]

Fixed a typo, read it again.  Basically I am wondering what ML means by the phrase "might overlook" in the context of Equinox 800 target detection vs. Manticore.  Also wondering if this also applies in the same way to the Nox 900 which is a little different than the 800 in terms of separation, ID, and tones. 

To me, it almost comes off as platitudes (learn your machine, its a challenging machine for experts only) and deflection (if we didnt do this it would "overlook" targets like Equinox does) by ML to bide time while they refine the SW.  Which begs the question of why is an update needed at all if Manticore is behaving as the designers intended?

[GB_Amateur]

2 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

To me, it almost comes off as platitudes (learn your machine, its a challenging machine for experts only) and deflection (if we didnt do this it would "overlook" targets like Equinox does) by ML to bide time while they refine the SW.  Which begs the question of why is an update needed at all if Manticore is behaving as the designers intended?

Think back to the Iron Bias update on the Eqx 800 where they kept the original Iron Bias method but added another.  It's possible they will do something like this with the proposed update.  We've all seen over the years (decades?) where an update took away something that either had value or the users had the impression it had value.  And then even more bitching and whining occurs than initially occurred.

It sure looks as though that Facebook answer was written by someone knowledgeable (i.e. an engineer) than, for example, a marketer.  That gives it more credence in my book, and less likely to have weasel-craft going on.

[Medina]

so nice being in a group you dont have to explain what the group is about in detail

you can see why I'm flummoxed.. now i'd have dug this in a relic site, but was in a modern (70's) local park

I was using the 800 so I dug it, now I'm running my own ohio VDI chart, the pile of weird, odd, unusual had this in it.

that red line might keep me from digging it... AT-Gen, sens 20 d+-2, fairly tight ferrous (didn't hear it till I hit the horseshoe) 

 

 

[Dug D]

I had the same general thought going on about the nuance in signals and the adjustments to iron bias settings on the nox.  Not sure if its the same thing here, but likely something similar.

I don't have many hours in yet, but I don't trust the red line. I dug a clad dime because the red line also gave me a high tone, re scan of the hole with plug replaced and got no iron, clean ground?