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V1.0... I Think I'll Keep It!


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19 hours ago, raziel900 said:
I think xp should tell us this....
I think it's right that after this update 
xp informs us if there are differences between the various programs even if we set the same frequency range

It seems that many detector manufacturers are relunctant to give out "too much" information about how their programs work, probably to discourage other companies from copying their work. So it is left to us to figure things out and that's why this forum is important and we as a group can discuss these things. Together we will find the answers we seek. 😉

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For what it’s worth, I think most of us are assuming that all programs using frequency addition will be exactly the same when the max frequency is set the same in each one and all other settings are the same.  However there may be something different going on with the weighting of the lower frequencies…probably only XP knows this for sure.  I guess if one takes the time to set up , say, park and sensitive to the exact same settings and max frequency and then toggling between the two on various targets, you should be able to tell if they’re the same.  I have to admit I’m not big on setting up test gardens.  I’d much rather learn the machine by hunting with it in the wild.  

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Excellent speech NCtoad. 👍

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5 hours ago, NCtoad said:

For what it’s worth, I think most of us are assuming that all programs using frequency addition will be exactly the same when the max frequency is set the same in each one and all other settings are the same.  However there may be something different going on with the weighting of the lower frequencies…probably only XP knows this for sure.  I guess if one takes the time to set up , say, park and sensitive to the exact same settings and max frequency and then toggling between the two on various targets, you should be able to tell if they’re the same.  I have to admit I’m not big on setting up test gardens.  I’d much rather learn the machine by hunting with it in the wild.  

You’re right.  I set up Beach Sensitive and Beach exactly the same and tested some targets…they weren’t the same.  It’s the frequency weightings that makes the difference as I see it but what do I know.  Cav Guys we’re never known for their brilliance…especially old ones!  😂

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35 minutes ago, ColonelDan said:

You’re right.  I set up Beach Sensitive and Beach exactly the same and tested some targets…they weren’t the same.  It’s the frequency weightings that makes the difference as I see it but what do I know.  Cav Guys we’re never known for their brilliance…especially old ones!  😂

XP has never really explained what frequency addition means.  So that could definitely affect the FMF frequency spectrum for modes that otherwise "look" identicsl.

However, the beach modes use conductive ground subtraction which makes sense in the beach modes, as salt conductivity is being notched out.  Perhaps Beach Sensitive, in addition to having a higher Max F, has less of a salt "notch" to provide greater sensitivity to small beach gold.

Still surprised they behave that differently.

Dan - Can you be more specific about how you set up the two modes to be identical and what was different about how they behaved?  Specifically, did you set up Beach to emulate Beach Sensitive or vice versa or both.  I know it shouldn't matter if they are identical.

The only adjustable parameter defaults that are different between Beach and Beach Sensitive are Max F (24 and 40 khz, respectively) and Salt sensitivity (9 and 7, respectively), I believe.

Thanks for checking that out, Dan.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Zord said:

 

I hope XP fix it.
Why did they change the silencer and not leave smooth values? There is too much difference between 1 and 2. The old version with value 2 worked much more efficiently.

 

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6 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

XP has never really explained what frequency addition means.  So that could definitely affect the FMF frequency spectrum for modes that otherwise "look" identicsl.

However, the beach modes use conductive ground subtraction which makes sense in the beach modes, as salt conductivity is being notched out.  Perhaps Beach Sensitive, in addition to having a higher Max F, has less of a salt "notch" to provide greater sensitivity to small beach gold.

Still surprised they behave that differently.

Dan - Can you be more specific about how you set up the two modes to be identical and what was different about how they behaved?  Specifically, did you set up Beach to emulate Beach Sensitive or vice versa or both.  I know it shouldn't matter if they are identical.

The only adjustable parameter defaults that are different between Beach and Beach Sensitive are Max F (24 and 40 khz, respectively) and Salt sensitivity (9 and 7, respectively), I believe.

Thanks for checking that out, Dan.

 

 

Chase,  I was doing some air tests focused on 23 pull tabs from a variety of cans and manufacturers since I haven't had a chance yet to get to the beach with V1.0.   I wanted to confirm my suspicion that all pull tabs, like bottle caps, are not created equal...which turns out to be the case. 

I set up Beach with a max freq of 40 and salt sensitivity of 7...just as I had in Beach Sensitive which is my primary beach hunting program.  All settings were identical.  What I noticed was a somewhat difference in VDI at times.  The Beach program was a VDI point or two lower than Beach Sensitive...again at times and only with certain, but the very same, pull tabs as I tested using Beach Sensitive without the notch.  In other cases, they were the same VDI.  This led me to suspect that there may be some slight difference between the two programs other than max frequency and salt sensitivity and it most likely depends on the metallurgical composition of that pull tab...perhaps.

Having said that, I readily admit these results are inconclusive right now as air tests have their well known limitations.  In any case, the difference wasn't significant enough to cause concern for my purposes.  I was able to confirm my assumption that pull tabs are indeed different in make up so if I wanted to notch them out, I would have to establish the range from 61 - 65.

I then tested a number of gold, tungsten carbide and stainless steel rings to determine if any of those rang up in that 61-65 range which would then mask the good targets...and they did not.  The closest was the steel ring which rang up in the low 50's.  I'll give up nickels now and then for sure.  So to cover that, I installed a modified gold field and modified dive program,sans notch, next to my notched Beach Sensitive program so I have a check on anything that raises a question as I scan the beach.

More validation of my "theory" is certainly required and on a real salt water beach since as I always try to apply the philosophy of my past life...."train as you fight." In other words, make the training or testing as close to the actual operational environment as possible.

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My air test results with 85 white gold yellow gold men’s and women’s bands and diamond rings yielded (18) rings in the 60 > 69 TID range. 0@60, 1@61, 4@62, 0@63, 4@64 6@65, 0@66, 1@67, 2@68, 0@69.

The largest concentration of rings (50) fell in the 40>59 range. 5 pig rings fell in 84 & 85 range.

This was done indoors, Beach 24kHz 11” coil

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Carolina,  I saw a different result using 40kHz in Beach Sensitive 11" coil.   I use 24kHz in my Gold Field and Dive Check programs that I installed next to my Notched Beach Sensitive program so I could check anything questionable.

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