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Last week I went on several quite long gold detecting trips.  I went to Rye Patch for a couple of days, The Dale, an unnamed spot and Coolgardie/Barstow.  The truth of the matter was that I spent more time driving and being shown areas for future detecting than I did swinging.  There was no gold found. 

While driving I did have time to think.  One of the things I was thinking about was getting small nuggets and small trash in the scoop.  I was using the 15" CC but I've noticed the same thing no matter what coil I use but here is the question:

Why does the small little 'target' brighten up as you get down to just it?  

When I start scooping and waving the scoop over the coil at first it might be muddled or very lightly heard.  Scoops aren't that big but yet it seems that just that bit of dirt and rocks really affects the hearing of the target in the scoop.  If you remove half of the dirt in the scoop and you wave it again then there is a very noticeable difference as long as the target is still in the scoop.  If you half the scoop contents again then you get a similar effect.

I get the idea that there is less interference with less content in the scoop.  But ... it is really only a little bit of dirt, why should it mask the little nugget or trash so much?  When you get down to the .1 g nugget or trash it is really screaming.  Why doesn't it do that with a little bit of dirt in the scoop?  I want someone who knows to be technical if possible.  What happens to the send and receive 'waves' or pulses that make this happen with pulse and vlf detectors?

It shouldn't be a matter of 'power' and it is not one of 'distance' and it shouldn't be one of 'air.'

Now, put the nugget back in the ground (or don't put it in the scoop) and there is a lot more 'dirt' to degrade the signal.  The ground, the salt, the hotrocks ... etc.

If I was more technical I'd use more technical language to describe what I'm talking about but I'm not.  I don't use a scoop for my beach targets.  These are my observation about gold nugget areas.

I'm hoping an understanding of this will improve my in ground detecting.  I know that I can't find nuggets that have already been removed.  haha

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I believe that when you eliminate most of the soil from what the coil would normally see when passing over the gold in the ground, the signal is changed that the detector would normally pick up.

When it is in a scoop there is less ground to cover and that will change the response on the detector.

With the 800 I have been using, I have made a small test area with lead shot in the ground and I know that the sound I get when I hit the target with the target with the detector is different than when it is out of the ground and in my scoop.

That is why I believe that it has to be with the amount of soil that is being passed over the coil. The coil is usually sitting on the ground without being moved side by side like you would be swinging it, but then when moving a small scoop of soil over it it takes into account the ground and the moving scoop.

I don't know why it happens but it does.

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I've not noticed it on most gold so maybe it's minerals in your soil and the more you remove the more minerals you eliminate but I have noticed it on some very tiny gold and I just put it down to the more soil in the scoop the less likely the tiny bit of gold is right at the bottom of the scoop, as the soil is gradually removed from the scoop the gold is naturally closer to the bottom of the scoop thereby getting closer to my coil.

When it's light dusty soil I always jiggle my scoop around to help the gold work it's way to the bottom of the scoop, this is of course as I'm normally finding very tiny bits and this helps.

I have noticed on some Aussies youtube videos that the targets in the scoop brighten up as they remove more and more soil from it, I really don't get that here unless its a very tiny target.

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2 hours ago, Valens Legacy said:

I believe that when you eliminate most of the soil from what the coil would normally see when passing over the gold in the ground, the signal is changed that the detector would normally pick up.

When it is in a scoop there is less ground to cover and that will change the response on the detector.

With the 800 I have been using, I have made a small test area with lead shot in the ground and I know that the sound I get when I hit the target with the target with the detector is different than when it is out of the ground and in my scoop.

That is why I believe that it has to be with the amount of soil that is being passed over the coil. The coil is usually sitting on the ground without being moved side by side like you would be swinging it, but then when moving a small scoop of soil over it it takes into account the ground and the moving scoop.

I don't know why it happens but it does.

This is a reasonable theory, it could be what's happening

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25 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I've not noticed it on most gold so maybe it's minerals in your soil and the more you remove the more minerals you eliminate but I have noticed it on some very tiny gold and I just put it down to the more soil in the scoop the less likely the tiny bit of gold is right at the bottom of the scoop, as the soil is gradually removed from the scoop the gold is naturally closer to the bottom of the scoop thereby getting closer to my coil.

When it's light dusty soil I always jiggle my scoop around to help the gold work it's way to the bottom of the scoop, this is of course as I'm normally finding very tiny bits and this helps.

I have noticed on some Aussies youtube videos that the targets in the scoop brighten up as they remove more and more soil from it, I really don't get that here unless its a very tiny target.

I think this is the most likely what's happening, in dry soil at least, the gold moves to the bottom of the scoop easily. In wet soil the first paragraph is most likely what's happening.

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That's my guess too.   A half inch can make a big signal response difference on tiny targets. If the flake is floating anywhere up in your scoop and not the absolute bottom, that could be what you are noticing? 

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I'm thinking it has more to do with 'mass' in the scoop than closeness to the bottom.

Once I get the target in my scoop, after pinpointing, the first scoop that has a tiny or small target definitely can be heard of you would keep scooping.   How much is that volume, mass or weight in the scoop?  It seems very little that would affect the signals of the coil but even when the target is at the bottom of the scoop the sound to me is still compromised.

If you happen to halve the contents of the scoop and you have to target in your hand and nothing in the scoop, as I wave it over different parts of the coil I mostly hear nothing.  When the target half of material is added back to the scoop you can hear a louder signal and this volume continues to increase until you only have the target.  

One exception to this observation seems to be pellets.  Pellets are pretty loud with a lot of material in the scoop or very little.

I'm open for suggestions and I see that Wes has sent something as I type this.

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25 minutes ago, WesD said:

That's my guess too.   A half inch can make a big signal response difference on tiny targets. If the flake is floating anywhere up in your scoop and not the absolute bottom, that could be what you are noticing? 

I think we get close enough with the target in the scoop.  We keep waving it around and changing the orientation of the flake or wire.

Let's say the target is even a .5g piece.  I've noticed a full scoop is not as loud as a target only.  Of course size matters!

To me it still seems like the other material in the scoop keeps the electronic response muffled in a way.  The material in the scoop 'insulates' the target in an electronic/physical way.

But as Simon has said and we have all observed we can find little bits with our coils in the ground that are very small and deep with much more material than we put in the scoop.  The target brightens up in the pile as we dig, and we definitely know when we get it out of the hole.  Is this as simple as scrubbers win and find more gold because you get closer to the target?

We do rake some of these areas and find that this will allow for more finds so maybe the closeness and orientation is a bigger part than I want to give it credit for, but I still believe there is a scientific explanation that someone like Chase or Steve could detail for us.

 

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I have a very strong super magnet affixed to the end of my hoe, and once the target is in the cup, I swirl the magnet throughly through the dirt to remove the magnetic materials, magnetite etc., as well as sift the target to the bottom of the cup. This action significantly enhances the signal volume. But then again, removing more and more dirt has the same effect.  My conclusion is that mineralization, soil mass, and target orientation all contribute to signal strength.  However,  I prefer it when a loud signal is indicative of a big nugget! 😏 Hope this helps. HH Jim

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Thanks Jim.

It does help but not fully explain what many of us experience.

I prefer the big nugget too which is more and more rare but I'm just surprised what a scoop of dirt can do to a target's responses.

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