Thoughts On The TDI SL ?

[RickUK]

The main market for the TDI sl these days must be the beach and also deep hoard/relic hunting,as a nugget hunter for some reason its not that very popular.I use a TDI solely for deep hoard hunting here in the UK,infact i only use it with a large coil and in straight PI mode,for my needs the high/low target conductivity facility is just not used.

If only Whites could have sorted out a battery setup that could be shipped world wide without any problems that are allied with the current Pro machines and also give some greater depth then that is the machine that most folks would buy rather than keeping a much 'tamer' version that folks dont really want.

If folks are on a tight budget for a PI machine for nugget hunting and they have a choice between say a brand new TDI 'sl' or a 2nd hand Minelab then the latter option will win hands down,folks are buying the new super duper 7000 and then off loading a slightly lesser spec GPX but although it may be 2nd hand its performance will be far more superior than the 'sl' and even a wider coil selection as well.

The trouble is that you basically stop production of the only model that may have competed against the other big players because of the battery problems that are allied with transportation but still kept in production the model that no one really wants.

I have a TDI Pro machine and as mentioned above i use it solely for hoard hunting,would i have bought a 'sl' version the reply would be no way,the horrible 'S' shaped shaft and because of the limited battery life i would almost certainly go and buy a competitors machines,price does not really come int the equation but usability does and the 'sl' for the most part is neither a top pro nugget machine or infact it also lacks on beach use as well because its not waterproof,so folks do tend to go more for the added bonus of being waterproof in a wet enviroment just incase they drop the machine in the surf.

[AU_Solitude]

5 hours ago, RickUK said:

 

I have a TDI Pro machine and as mentioned above i use it solely for hoard hunting,would i have bought a 'sl' version the reply would be no way,the horrible 'S' shaped shaft and because of the limited battery life i would almost certainly go and buy a competitors machines,price does not really come int the equation but usability does and the 'sl' for the most part is neither a top pro nugget machine or infact it also lacks on beach use as well because its not waterproof,so folks do tend to go more for the added bonus of being waterproof in a wet enviroment just incase they drop the machine in the surf.

I have used an SL and actually like the S-shaft - matter of opinion there. Other than that, I believe everyone else seems to be on the same page. 

[HardPack]

I agree with AU, the TDI Sl is light and easy to swing. For me the "S" shape handles weight distribution just fine. I like the concept of the dual field coil. The problem I have with the 12" DF is not the coil but the steep brushy terrain. It is too large to maneuver in thick brush without lifting and tilting the coil resulting false signals. I would like to hear comments from member who have experience using the 12" dual field coil.

[tboykin]

12 hours ago, AussieMatt said:

QED release in the next week or so. Talk is it will outperform the TDI'S but be available much cheaper? The QED release looks like being fair dinkum this time - the Aussie White's distributor is reportedly showing customers a prototype of it.

http://australianelectronicgoldprospectingforum.com/new-board-109/qed-update-8893/

I will believe it when I see a nugget dug with it --- the QED has been on the verge of release for 6 years!

[tboykin]

11 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Personally I like almost everything about the TDI SL. Great price, good feature set, good coil selection, and excellent ergonomics. Unfortunately it just lacks that little bit more punch I would like to see. In moderate to low mineral ground I found that just about any decent prospecting VLF in all metal mode does as well or better. For much of Nevada for instance a VLF is a better choice, especially when something like a GMT can hit small gold invisible to a TDI SL. It is only when you run into serious hot rocks or real bad ground, like the California serpentine ground, that the TDI pulls ahead with its better ground handling capability.

There are a few easy things we can do to improve performance, wondering what you think about them:

1. Include a hotter battery (with charger). This bumps up the depth closer to a Pro, and in practical, in-ground use (keeping in mind things like a smooth threshold/noise and target identifiability) it really is almost a wash with higher voltage. Talking an inch difference or so based on initial testing.

2. Replace stock coil with a different design for better ground rejection and sensitivity to small gold. Coil technology for the TDI series has come a long way in the past few years thanks to guys like Miner John.

3. Decrease weight even further and include built-in options for chest mount. This would make it the lightest pulse on the market, and ideal for backpacking in. Not a big deal for older guys who like to stay within a stone's throw of their car or ATV. But that kind of detecting isn't for them.

I know for a select few U.S. prospectors money is no issue. But for the rest of the world things like weight, cost, and portability are bigger factors. If you are hitting the same areas that have been hammered for decades, obviously you will need the deepest, most expensive detector just to find 3 DWT in a week's time. The guys who are beating the brush (or freshly opened gold fields in Brazil, Africa, or OZ) need something that they can drop, scratch, pack-in, and will find them gold in harsh ground. The GMT struggles in areas like serpentine zones, ironstone, basalt, etc.

My gut feeling is that the SL has a stink about it based on hearsay (not actual use), and that with a little bit of attention will make an excellent working man's pulse machine. The reason I wanted to ask you guys is I have been talking to SL owners and dealers recently, and they are quick to sing its praises. And these are people who use the machine regularly! The only knocks on it have been on forums and they say the same three things (which would be improved by the previously-mentioned list)-

     1. Not as deep as Pro (insert other machines like GPX/Z depending on forum)

     2. Not as good on small gold as VLF/MF

     3. Doesn't work well in red-hot ground

I think it's worth looking at and maybe tailoring it more to the blue collar guys who don't have 2k+ for a machine. Or a backup beater/slamhog detector for when you don't want to scuff up your shiny Lamborghini.

There are a lot of great ideas in this thread, and I welcome more input. A lot easier asking the pros directly than shooting in the dark!

[Steve Herschbach]

13 hours ago, RickUK said:

as a nugget hunter for some reason its not that very popular.

The original TDI and TDI Pro have excellent performance in pure PI mode. However, gold prospecting is all about how well a PI can perform while ground balancing.

I was involved in the TDI development and therefore in 2008 pulled strings to get several of the very first TDI models off the production line shipped to my mine at Moore Creek, Alaska. I ran a pay-to-mine operation there and we provided detectors for those who did not have their own. I replaced four Garrett Infiniums with four TDI units, plus had one of my own.

http://www.detectorprospector.com/steves-mining-journal/whites-tdi-moore-creek-alaska.htm

The visitors by and large did bring their own detectors, and the GPX 4500 was new in 2008, so people were packing the 4500 and earlier models. Everyone was curious about the new TDI and frankly everyone always wants to see somebody knock Minelab off their pedestal. So lots of comparisons went on that summer, and the result was always the same. The Minelab's easily got big gold deeper and hit smaller gold better. My response was always the same "well yeah, for the money they should".

That sounds good at a sales counter, but the fact is people get together with different detectors all the time, and word gets around quick. In any gathering it quickly becomes obvious that money saved on a purchase is false economy when people with more expensive machines are finding the gold while the less expensive machines struggle. This is excaberated by the most experienced people normally using those expensive units, while often the less expensive units are being used by less experienced people. Double whammy.

It is not about opinions or bias or anything but simple observable facts in the field as seen by numerous people. The reason the TDI in any version is not selling well with nugget hunters is any Minelab from the SD 2100 on outperforms it for gold prospecting. The gold fields are playing out and it is a performance arms race out there. From the perspective of many people like me it's not whether or not we can afford a Minelab. It is whether we can afford the gold missed by using anything less. Most serious prospectors are extremely practical people, and there is less brand name loyalty or bias then people think. All you have to do to get a prospector to jump ship is show them you have a better mousetrap.

Most debates among prospectors these days are over which is better - a GPX or a GPZ? Or maybe the SDC. Or if money is tight, which used Minelab? The TDI is old tech and if White's really wants to get back in the game with prospectors then it is imperative that the new patent tech be brought to market, and soon. The only thing keeping the TDI in play is price and ergonomics, and that advantage may be gone very soon. If Garrett ever puts the ATX circuit in a light, inexpensive housing with decent coils at a lower price the TDI is dead. If Nokta gets something to market using the expired Minelab MPS (Minelab SD series) patent the TDI is dead. There is no point Fisher bringing a CZX to market unless it is a TDI killer. The under $2K high performance market is ripe for the taking.

[Steve Herschbach]

7 hours ago, HardPack said:

I would like to hear comments from member who have experience using the 12" dual field coil.

I found my largest nugget/specimen (1.93 oz, pic below) with the TDI and 12" coil in brush so thick I could barely force myself through it. If your machine is giving false signals from being lifted or tilted the machine is either not properly ground balanced, or the coil may be bad.

[Steve Herschbach]

1 hour ago, tboykin said:

1. Include a hotter battery (with charger). This bumps up the depth closer to a Pro, and in practical, in-ground use (keeping in mind things like a smooth threshold/noise and target identifiability) it really is almost a wash with higher voltage. Talking an inch difference or so based on initial testing.

2. Replace stock coil with a different design for better ground rejection and sensitivity to small gold. Coil technology for the TDI series has come a long way in the past few years thanks to guys like Miner John.

3. Decrease weight even further and include built-in options for chest mount. This would make it the lightest pulse on the market, and ideal for backpacking in. Not a big deal for older guys who like to stay within a stone's throw of their car or ATV. But that kind of detecting isn't for them.

These are all excellent ideas Tom. Especially more power/closer to Pro performance.

I still look at getting a TDI SL every once in awhile simply because of the ergonomics. There are places in California where it is very steep, hands and knees type prospecting and in thick brush to boot. The best thing going for the TDI SL is the light weight knock around aspect.

[Ridge Runner]

You got all this talk about the TDI SL  but What's coming down the pipes from White's ?

Minelab has lowered their price on the 4500,5000 and The GPZ 7000. So what you ask is the big deal about that. The price on all of the PI detectors from Minelab will drop more as in used. I tell you that people will be willing to put out money on a used Minelab more so than a new TID SL. They doing that now !

Tom I tell you and White's if don't get off your butt and come out with something soon you may have to take another PI off line. I too believe it would do White's good if they had a small leak on what's coming  out the door soon.

Chuck

PS What's said is my opinion and it alone. I don't have the SL But the SPP. 

[GB_Amateur]

1 hour ago, tboykin said:

1. Include a hotter battery (with charger). This bumps up the depth closer to a Pro, and in practical, in-ground use (keeping in mind things like a smooth threshold/noise and target identifiability) it really is almost a wash with higher voltage. Talking an inch difference or so based on initial testing.

I'm confused about the last parts of this, specifically:  "...almost a wash..." and "...an inch or so difference..."  A wash comparing what, and a difference comparing what?  You mean a TDI/SL as currently configured compared to a TDI/SL with the proposed new battery, or the TDI/SL with the proposed new battery compared to the current TDI Pro?