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White's Dfx Versus V3i On Gold


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I have been bouncing back and forth between the White's DFX and V3i for many years. In theory the switch to V3i should be a no-brainer.

However, the original Vision model I got had bad EMI issues in Anchorage, Alaska, especially with buried power lines. When the V3i came out I tried again with no joy. When I moved to Reno I tried again, and EMI was less a problem. The next issue is the main reason I have a DFX is to run a BigFoot coil. Most coils need to be tuned for the specific detector operating frequency. The BigFoot is tuned for 3 kHz and 15 kHz especially for the MXT/DFX series. My BigFoot works well enough in V3i 2.5 kHz and 7.5 kHz single frequency modes. However, in 22.5 kHz single frequency mode or in three frequency mode the target id (VDI) numbers all skew very high (they tripled on the last V3i that I had). This more or less limited the BigFoot to being used only in 7.5 kHz mode on the V3i where I would generally prefer to use 22.5 kHz single frequency mode. The coil runs just fine on the DFX in 15 kHz mode so after lots of back and forth I finally settled on the DFX.

The DFX has weaknesses however. The DFX always transmits a combined dual frequency waveform. When single frequency mode is chosen, the machine still transmits the same waveform optimized for dual frequency use, but simply ignores half the return signal to process either the 3 kHz portion or the 15 kHz portion. The transmit waveform is not optimized for single frequency and so some punch is lost compared to a dedicated single frequency machine like the MXT.

The V3i in single frequency mode actually modifies the transmit waveform for use at the single frequency. It is still not quite as efficient as a dedicated single frequency detector, but a big improvement over the DFX way of doing things. The V3i also adds transmit boost capability, that can bring that last little bit of lost performance as compared to a dedicated single frequency detector. The lost efficiency shows up more as shorter battery life than actual lost performance.

Second, the DFX while in multi frequency mode is always locked into "Salt Mode" for saltwater beach operation, effectively tuning out the salt range. This unfortunately means that small gold capability is degraded in DFX dual frequency mode. The V3i allows the salt mode operation to be deactivated while in multi frequency mode, allowing for better small gold performance while in MF mode. The closest the DFX can get is to run in a single frequency mode, which turns off the dual frequency salt compensation. But now you are back to running a less optimized single frequency mode as compared to the V3i in single frequency mode.

Long story short there are too many benefits and neat features on the V3i that I have been denying myself due to my desire for BigFoot compatibility. The fact is I normally run the BigFoot in 15 kHz single frequency mode on my DFX for a little extra gold hots. However, after some thought I have decided the V3i running at an optimized 7.5 kHz is likely just as good if not better than the DFX running a "soft" 15 kHz. So I did talk myself into a new V3i recently.

In theory the V3i at 22.5 kHz should be a decent nugget detector, but you rarely hear of it being used as such. Part of that is a ground balance issue. The DFX and V3i tracking systems really are not up to working that well in heavily mineralized ground. The DFX does offer a normal manual ground balance mode with both a coarse and fine adjust, although you have to dive into the menu to access it - not so handy for making constant tweaks. The V3i actually has no true Manual ground balance mode. The best you can do is track and lock, as on the MXT. However, the V3i "Live Controls" can be set up to give the operator direct access to a ground balance offset that can tweak the "locked" setting up or down. That may actually be easier to access and use than the DFX version of manual ground balance but I need to play around more to find out for sure.

whites-dfx-versus-v3i-metal-detector.jpg
White's DFX and White's V3i metal detectors

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  • The title was changed to White's Dfx Versus V3i On Gold

Yes I see your dilemma, and the faults or short comings of all 3 machines seem to over lap.

Neither the V3i or the DFX has the Tracking system that the MXT 1 to 4 series has which would no doubt help tame the ground conditions Yet the V3i has the ability to off set the GB setting and neither of the 3 will let you just grab a knob and twist it manually or push a pad to do the same,

Putting the V3i in the Super detector Class, I would of thought when you think about the amount of things you can personalize on the V3i I would of thought that manual GB would have been the first things added to the list and see it as a more important feature than being able to change screen colours etc, And being the flag ship model I would of thought that Whites would of included their best tracking system to such a machine in order to make it the best it can be, Or even make that tracking system with a variable speed so it could run slower than the MXT and faster so one could utilize the 22khz mode for prospecting, I see those two things more important that colour screens and stereo sound.

I have always admired the DFX and thought it was sad when production stopped but newer machines that sounded like R2D2 seemed the way forward and the DFX got traded in at the rate of 4 and 5 a week at my local store, And If I could find a good one I would still buy one even now because we have not seen any major breakthroughs when it comes to depth, In fact when Detectors went digital we actually lost depth, which is something I found out last year when I bought a brand new unused Di 5900 Pro Still Boxed.

I make no bones I love the switch on and go of the MXT's but ? Again I wish they had fitted the 5 push pads in stead of the 3 pads, 2 extra for the manual GB, I like all these machine but to be fair they are so close yet so far, And all 3 machine are still very relevant with the current models on the market, Of coarse with all three we can hold back the GB by holding the coil a little higher off the ground which I have done from time to time but it is still no substitute for manually over riding the GB.

I see no reason to change from the MXT A/P unless they fit a manual GB to the next model and all the current models on the market don't offer me enough to warrant changing brands, But when I think about it I have done well with the way the MXT works for 7 years that I wonder is my fixation with having a manual GB more of a matter of want than need ? Or is it a matter of that I would just like to have the option to pick and choose ?.   

John.

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The V3i actually has no true Manual ground balance mode. The best you can do is track and lock, as on the MXT.

Huh? I'm confused.

I set mine to lock, pull the trigger and hold while pumping the coil until balanced before releasing the trigger. It remains locked at that GB point. Is that not a manual GB?

Pretty sure there are 3 ways to GB on the V3i. Auto track, auto track to lock, and what I do and thought was manual.

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8 minutes ago, Deft Tones said:

Huh? I'm confused.

I set mine to lock, pull the trigger and hold while pumping the coil until balanced before releasing the trigger. It remains locked at that GB point. Is that not a manual GB?

Pretty sure there are 3 ways to GB on the V3i. Auto track, auto track to lock, and what I do and thought was manual.

No in effect what you are doing is up dating the GB to the current location, Machines like the F-75 don't really have tracking and they basically are like running these 3 machines in the locked position, but with a few of FT machines your only option is to update the tracking although they monitor the ground conditions they do not actually Track the ground by self adjusting like the DFX, V3i and the MXT's do. where they can self adjust In the ground mode or monitor the ground when in the Locked position and they will update at the press of the Grab button.

John.

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On 7/12/2017 at 4:15 PM, Deft Tones said:

I set mine to lock, pull the trigger and hold while pumping the coil until balanced before releasing the trigger. It remains locked at that GB point. Is that not a manual GB?

No, that is ground grab. Manual ground balance has the ability to adjust up or down via a control. There are three basic methods:

GMT - Ground tracking OR ground grab OR manual ground balance 

MXT - Ground tracking OR ground grab

V3i - Ground tracking OR ground grab

With automatic tracking a detector adjusts to the ground on the fly.

Ground grab is accomplished via either the "track and lock method" or via a "Ground Grab" button. Tracking and then locking simply sets the balance at the last tracked setting. Ground grab usually relies on a detector tracking internally and then "grabbing" whatever that internally tracked number is and locking it into place via a button or switch. Machines like the F75 and Gold Bug Pro, to name a couple, do track internally at all times, which is where the ground phase display comes from. Hitting the ground grab button on either unit locks the current tracked number in as the current fixed ground balance setting. Other machines ground grab by temporarily engaging a tracking circuit when a button or switch is activated.

Manual ground balance is pure manual control. Classic example is the Gold Bug 2 ground balance (ground reject) knob.

gold-bug-2-control-panel.jpg

 

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Sorry Steve I was under the impression that the F75 did not self adjust, I thought that they only monitored the Ground and then set them selves to their last reading when the Ground grab was pressed,

Thanks for that, again I apologize for any miss information.

John. 

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That's correct John. I think we are thinking same thing and tripping over terminology. The F75, GBP, etc. track internally and display the current tracking as the ground phase number. This is only displayed however and is not engaged or used until locked in via the ground grab button.

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1 minute ago, Steve Herschbach said:

That's correct John. I think we are thinking same thing and tripping over terminology. The F75, GBP, etc. track internally and display the current tracking as the ground phase number. This is only displayed however and is not engaged or used until locked in via the ground grab button.

That is a very cool set up because although it is not updating the machine you can actually follow the ground conditions where machines like the MXT only display the current setting in the GND window unless a person is actually using the tracking feature,

Does the V3i or the DFX have a Live ground phase window when the GB is locked ?

John.

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Deft Tones, this is all no big deal, just me "self teaching" by looking up stuff for my own use and then posting about it. Manual ground balance is rarely needed by most people but is firmly entrenched in the prospecting world. In the end, all metal detector performance comes down to the efficiency and accuracy of the ground balance. A fine manual tune was once considered essential for gold prospecting but honestly that is not so true any longer as better tracking systems come online. 

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