Nokta Impact Versus Minelab Gold Monster In Australia

[auminesweeper]

Sorry folks, This is Phasetechs post that Mike is referring to,  Which is his reply to answering a member of Prospecting Australia forum when asking about Non-Minelab Detectors, 

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=358045#p358045

John.

[Mike Dawson]

Thanks John for sticking up for another Aussie here in the US.I think Phase Tech will be cross with us for leaking out his three best non Minelabs VLF,s for nugget hunting although I did not mention him by name specifically ,only leaked his findings.Don't forget PT also is a Minelab dealer but only sells the GPZ 7000 by memory and now possibly also the GM. PT,s favourite gold detector is the GPZ. I don,t understand PT when he says the Impact and others are best used for trashy areas due to their good discrimination when I have used it in very clean goldfields and only identify hot rocks. and very rarely iron but never eliminate them.Find it extraordinary that Steve found me guilty of implicating him in any conspiracy about hiding the truth about the Impact when nothing like that even occurred to me.I was referring to the general public.I have been reading all his posts about the Impact but the most important one -about testing the Impact on goldfields was not done by him. I was expecting him to do it but in the end he lost his chance and Phase Tech beat him to it. So PT can claim second place after me,but as I have said before no believed me about my findings as none in Australia bothered to reply to my findings. To his credit Steve was the only one to acknowledge me on this forum and seemed to accept my findings and being administrator really livens up this forum to make it the best around.A little bit of banter does no one any harm unless it becomes personal and I know Steve means well. It seems me and PT really got the ball rolling for the Impact on goldfields.My only beef with Steve is he is talking about scrubbing the Impact from his arsenal because it is slightly heavier than he is used to but he has never tested the Impact on a goldfield and does not know what it is capable of. Of coarse they won,t match PI Minelabs in the depth department but PI Minelabs can,t match the Impact,s price by a long shot.It does not bother me that 99% of Impact buyers will only use it for coin hunting as it does what I want to use it for and for the money I paid for it.I suppose I too can boast I have been using a Whites longer than Steve, for 37 years actually, and Nokta is only a very new brand so a few measly years more than me is nothing to crow about.We both started using the best Nokta detector so far about the same time,me in late June. But Steve is right when he says if Mike likes it that is all that matters.but infers I am easily pleased and the Impact is not all that good.But I like it for all the right reasons.Anyway thanks John for giving me great moral support about the Impact.I have been out in the cold about it some time. Best of luck,Mike.

[auminesweeper]

Mike, being a fellow Aussie I think you might of misread Steve, when I first came over here I Ironed out 2 blokes in the Pub next door due to a slight misunderstanding, Lol,   No social graces some people       I think something gets lost in translation somewhere along the way, When I first met Steve via the internet 10 or 12 years ago I use to have to go away and think about my answer and work out what exactly he was saying, Having a short fuse did not make it any easier either,

All modern VLF detectors can see Gold but it just depends on the size of the Gold, as expensive as the CTX is, It does have it's limits when it comes to small Gold, It can see bits within say 1 or 3 grams machines like the MXT and the Impact they can see bits as small as 0.006 to 0.003 grams if it is on the surface scrubbing the Coil but they will see bits around 0.02grams within an inch or two.

35 minutes ago, Mike Dawson said:

I don,t understand PT when he says the Impact and others are best used for trashy areas due to their good discrimination when I have used it in very clean goldfields and only identify hot rocks. and very rarely iron but never eliminate them

Well the reason for that is that in clean areas you can cheat and either use it in All Metal or use a more powerful GPX or the SDC/7000,

Mike I don't think you realize just how important a good VLF is when it comes to nugget hunting, Yes hot rocks can drive you nuts at times but you can ground balance them out and tweak the disc and remove them altogether, or almost,  One thing that PT did not say is that in clean ground that if the Gold is small then the Impact will most likely see small Gold a little better than say as GPX45/5000 but things in that respect are changing because companies are learning how to make PI coils a lot hotter to small Gold and another thing you need to remember is if the mineralization is Low or normal a good VLF will match most PI's anyway, A link I post here the other day a Guy got a very loud signal using an MXT with the standard 9.5" coil and he thought it was a soda can under the surface which turned out to be a 10.64 ozt nugget over 18" deep and I know of another person who hit a 1ozt nugget with his MXT at 18" using that big 12"/300 coil, so with the right coil and plenty of practice your impact will do magical things.

PT post lists a brief report so he wrote what he thought got his point across, He left the rest of the info to kicked around by people like you and me,

Read this review by Steve about the MXT but remember the section below the Specs Box halfway down the page could apply to your Impact and be 99.99% Accurate and applicable to you and your Impact, because when it comes to using them for prospecting they are almost Twins, Ok, So stop worrying

Take care,

John.

http://www.detectorprospector.com/gold-prospecting-equipment/whites-electronics-mxt-metal-detector.htm

[Steve Herschbach]

10 hours ago, Mike Dawson said:

Find it extraordinary that Steve found me guilty of implicating him in any conspiracy about hiding the truth about the Impact when nothing like that even occurred to me.I was referring to the general public.I have been reading all his posts about the Impact but the most important one -about testing the Impact on goldfields was not done by him.

First, if true I apologize. You never mentioned general public so yes, I assumed it was in the context of the on going discussion. It never occurred to me that you might think the general public is all involved in a conspiracy with Minelab. 

One of the first things I did was test the Impact on our goldfields. This picture was taken at Rye Patch, Nevada last year during testing. I have done more testing this year with it versus the G2 and a White's TDI SL. I have to say I am not very concerned about what the Impact does for you on your ground. All I care about is what it does on our goldfields and where I hunt, and I know very well what that is versus quite a few other detectors.

As far as ditching the Impact because it weighs more than I am used to? I swing a 7 lb plus GPZ 7000 day in and day out. My only comment was why would I use an Impact to metal detect for gold nuggets when ON MY GROUND other detectors that weigh less do as well or better.

And this? "But Steve is right when he says if Mike likes it that is all that matters.but infers I am easily pleased and the Impact is not all that good."

Mike (or is it Rob?), you have one huge chip on your shoulder and it appears to me you are looking to twist any comment I make into a negative. You have also made it quite clear whether you intended to or not that you think you know far more on the subject than I. We clearly are not communicating well with each other. Nothing of value is being said about the Impact at this point, and none of the other commentary interests me. So one last time, and I really do mean this sincerely - good luck and best wishes for your success with the Impact.

P.S. Since this is a game of one-upmanship, I got my White's Coinmaster 4 in 1972, which by my count was about 45 years ago. 

[auminesweeper]

Trying match detectors to people via the internet is like throwing a Dart at a map and saying the treasure is there, Only the person who detects there will know what works and what does not, I took mine to OZ and it workd and I have used it here to, at best all we can do is make a list of options and the rest is down to that person, when a certain machine is the wrong choice it will drive you nutz and it won't settle down regardless of the coil fitted, Every machine out there has it's quirks that make for some serious head scratching, It took me a few $kk to get where I am so I am not going to mess with what ain't broke,

John.

[Mike Dawson]

Steve,I think we need to cool down and start afresh as I really cant see the point of arguing. I am an easy going person and never try to belittle peoples thoughts or ideas unless provoked. I like your forum because here unlike the Australian forum I am on there is no out of control bullying,intimidation and personal abuse and insults. I sincerely want to keep it that way so I apologise for our misunderstandings,after all you are in charge here and I will try and abide by your rules.

Yes I have registered on all major forums worldwide only to inform people about the Impacts prowess in highly mineralised soil only to find they are not interested or plain do not believe me.So it has been a very frustrating exercise. If I had some standing in the detecting community like you maybe I would have got a better response.I could not care less personally if they accept it or not but I tried to help people out but was totally ignored.The guys on the Finds Treasure Forum even told me I did not know how to use the Impact and even questioned if I owned one because I tried to convey to them that using the target ID numbers to make decisions in very highly mineralised soil is unreliable.Not one even bothered to reply to me in a constructive manner, so have nothing in common with them.

By the general public I meant all members of major metal detecting forums.

I read all your posts about the Impact including the ones on Finds Treasure but did not know you have tested it in a goldfield in 2016 until today so it must have been the prototype. Apparently you have no use for it where you go but did not elaborate why.I would be interested to find out how mineralised your soil is.But we now know better where we stand.So anyway it still seems I was the first to test it in very highly mineralised soil and put out the information about its stability in that environment at least 2 months ago,unless you have any further comments to divulge.

I have no chip on my shoulder but you have the knack to turn everything I say into a negative connotation due to your highly emotional nature. 

I sincerely wish you all success in your future endeavors. Mike Dawson,General Custer, oldtimerROB.

[Mike Dawson]

Hi John,its good to be able to handle yourself in a pub brawl as we Aussies love to do. I learnt boxing from an ex Australian champion boxer at South Brunswick in Melbourne and we wanted me to fight at Festival Hall in professional fights. Instead I became a professional engineer and eventually  walked out because they turned me into a paper shuffler But thanks for the MXT link.I see the MXT operates at only 13.9 KHz.I think that is not as good as 20 Khz which is "hotter" on gold. My Impact gave a stronger signal on 20 compared to 14,that is because gold is a low conductivity metal as you know. As I repeated many times the Impact operates well at 20 Khz in very high mineralisation, at 70 gain and 6 isat which is the default settings. Never had to adjust those settings to compensate,only GB every 10 minutes or so.Will use tracking mode next time and lower the audio tone from 33 to 15, more suited for gold. At 20 Khz and the standard coil the Impact is very sensitive to 0.1 gram steel at 4 inches deep in low mineralisation.Half that for very high mineralization. Only drawback it is not waterproof like the MXT which is a big issue and most likely why Steve prefers other brands,although the Pro Pack provides a rain cover.PT says the MXT is only slightly behind the Impact in performance but he has yet to test the Impact in very high mineralisation as he did his test in warmish ground? Low,medium or high? but not very high when mineralization is 80% on the meter.I feel he really needs to put it through its paces and get  to red line it.Will the Impact,s COG mode work in extreme mineralisation? ie 100% on the meter. 99% of Yanks don't know what I am talking about. Well I GB,d it successfully at this one huge patch on a hill..Can the GPX or GPZ do that? Lastly that one oz. nugget found at 18 inches? what type of ground was that? From medium ground to very high may mean a reduction in depth of 50%. so 9 inches. In this type of soil I don't think I ever found a 2 oz. nugget deeper than 6 inches even with a 16 inch coil using a VLF.Personally I think the Impact needs a little bit more grunt on goldfields to keep one step behind the PI,s and should be fitted with the IM 40 16 inch coil.Best regards,Mike.

[auminesweeper]

The Impact has a few extra bit that are user adjustable which makes it a good contender,  Using VLFs for prospecting at one time is all we had and then the PI came out and they are very productive in certain environments as stated in that link, Sometimes a VLF may serve a person better, because PI's do not like junky ground and they don't like wet or sodden ground, VLFs do like wet ground a day or two after the rain and they hate mineralization and hot rocks, and from what I have seen the GPZ is a hybrid and has awesome power/depth but it too has it's dislikes too, from what I have read it does not like salt flats and it does like Tree Roots having caused people to dig them up thinking that there was a nugget near by,  So you see as stated many times before there is no perfect detector

As for how the Impact deals with mineralization appears to be better than most, But mineralization comes in many forms with about at lease 4 versions of it, you can have + and -  variants of Iron or Alkali's, being low mineral /Hi Iron, Hi mineral/low Iron, low mineral/low Iron, hi mineral/hi Iron and then you have all the variants of those with high and low magnetic properties thrown in.

No detector has a simple complete mineral readout that is in plain and simple English,  The GMT has half of the Info in one window and all of the info in another window, where it gives you the mineral percentage in the left window and the GB phase setting in the other,, The MXT gives you the Ground Phase only and all that tells you is the high numbers above 50 equals high in Iron and numbers that are lower than 50 means higher in Alkali meaning the lower it is the high the reading,

All this talk of two Bars, Three bars etc is a thing that Fisher bought out on the F-75 on the FE reading along with GB setting, I wish someone would just add a screen that has the Iron % and the Alkali % and a magnetic % and of coarse the GB setting in numeric figures, with the GB setting or any of the other readings being user selectable as to which one they want on the home screen, because too many people read their GB numbers and think that they are mineralization levels, The fact is about 90% of users do not understand what these readouts are actually saying,

J.

[LukeJ]

This thread should have been called:   Apples or Oranges, which do you prefer? 

I mean seriously, the GM1000 is a dedicated gold machine and the Impact is a 'Do it all, I'm not sure what I want to look for today' machine.  How can anyone give a good comparison?

45kHz vs. 20kHz.  What's there to discuss?

It seems to me that you, Mr. Dawson, are trying to publicly justify your purchase.  After almost four pages of back and forth, where's the pics of the gold you've found with the Impact?  What's the point of all of this?

The people who have responded to you thus far have been more than obliging, in my opinion.

As far as I can see, the Impact made an 'impact' when it first came out, but as far as finding gold nuggets, I haven't heard much.  A good friend of mine purchased one and has already sold it.  He knows what he's doing and finds his share of nuggets as well as relics and coins.  The Impact didn't stay in his arsenal more than a couple months and he replaced it with an AT-Gold.

Kudos to those who have remained patient with you.  I guess I just needed to say something a little more succinct.

Luke

[auminesweeper]

To be honest rave reviews can also have a damaging effect to new would be buyers, back a decade or two, lol. I use to read all the Mags and listen to the dealers and spend money like water, but it was seeing what a machine could do that made me buy it, since then I have put in 6-7000 hours in to testing plus detecting time, and there are many detectors that I like but none of them will be replacing my main machine, because despite what comes out we have really not come that far,  Recovery and disc has been two areas that some progress that has been made, But in terms of depth the VLF market has gone backwards, I have a 28 year old VLF that can still go deeper than the best latest and greatest,

Some of the worse reasons for buying machines is because of biased reviews or dealers with only one goal and mates who know a bit about detecting but do not understand the true principals of what they are actually doing, In OZ I think many are blinded by brand loyalty and that when they come up against an Issue they carry on regardless that stems from past history where Aussies have a saying where they say "She'll be right mate" which normally means they are going to keep going anyway or they are happy no matter what.

It is only in recent years that Aussie's have started to embrace the virtues of what modern American and European machines can actually achieve, where in the past only a few American machines paved the way until home grown product seemed to be the way to go, even though they only work well in some situations. and If you tell about 85% of people to do their homework they interpret that as reading reviews and listening to mates, Well I did that and in the early days it cost me well in to 5 figures along with time lost walking many miles aimlessly.

There is only one good detector in the world that has ever been made and that is the one that suits your needs the closest, other peoples views are only a guide. I am where I am at with detecting and detectors because someone showed me what a machine could do and it made my machines look stupid regardless of their high prices, then I read many stories and reviews and dissected peoples results, and I checked out how often such people were successful, One of them was a young man from AK Mining in Alaska and then those around him were also making finds with the same machine that I only dreamed of,

So I bought that machine and I was making finds like no tomorrow and after a while I started to think *is that all there is to it?* and then I started doing my own testing and I kicked it up a gear taking it further than anyone else, The results of that lead me to where I am in that nothing on the market really impresses me, Yes there are a lot of good machines out there but I would not spend $1.00 more to change to one of them from what I have because with the exception of the XP Deus with it's ultra light design there is just not enough advancements been made to warrant me to change.

Unlike ever before within this hobby the toughest question to answer is * which is the best detector for ??? * because all of them have their version of technology that came out years ago along with most of us have never been there or know the conditions or know that persons skill level and the list goes on, and the only way we/anyone can compare two machines that are exact opposites within IB *Induction Balance" scale is to take the two machines to where you want to use them because beyond that there is no way of knowing.

I apologize for this long winded post but  it reflects the pit falls and the lack of understanding by people who do not realize what is involved.

J.