Garrett ATX Strip Down & Rebuild

[Steve Herschbach]

OK, the stock Garrett ATX specs out on the website etc. at 6.9 lbs. With 8 NiMH AA batteries plus coil cover installed the stock ATX on my digital postal scales weighs 7 lbs 1.3 oz. (7.08 lbs).

The Garrett LTX below with batteries installed weighs in at 6 lbs 3.9 oz (6.24 lbs). A savings of only 0.84 lbs. Click photos below for larger versions.

Now, you may be thinking that was a lot of work for less than a pound shaved off, but I promise you this perfectly balanced carbon fiber straight shaft with foam grip and center mounted coil feels like a whole lot more than that has been saved. But here is the kicker. The control box itself with batteries installed only weighs 2 lbs 6.1 oz  (2.38 lbs). Where is all the weight? In that epoxy filled coil designed for underwater use! This coil, rod, and arm cup assembly weighs in at 3.86 lbs. In theory the control box could be hip or chest mounted, but that would be a nose heavy setup to use even if it is lighter so I would tend to use it like it is.

Back earlier in this thread I mounted this coil on a White's rod assembly and it weighed in at 3.2 lbs so this deluxe setup does add some weight. If I direct mounted the box on the the rod assembly pictured below we would be looking at 5.58 lbs total. I was hoping for just under 5 lbs but this would be good. I probably could get under 5 lbs with a lighter weight battery system. Again, the real problem here is the coil.

So now we finally go to where I would like to be. I used the White's rod but went with the Minelab arm cup for mounting purposes. I honestly do not see the Garrett ATX as a deepseeker machine per se when I already own a GPX 7000. What I really was looking for was a lightweight simple PI for shallower ground, yet ground too hot or with too many hot rocks for a VLF. Something that Garrett should be able to easily make and sell for under $2000. The secret would be a new lightweight dry land coil. I could use the 8" mono but the ATX is supposedly not compatible with the Infinium 8" mono (they warn it could harm the machine, though some doubt that. I hooked one up just once and nothing blew) and I am not willing to tear down an ATX 8" mono for this project. I do have the Infinium 5" x 10" DD and 4" x 7" DD coils however that I have been hoarding all this time for this project. And so without further ado I present to you the Garrett ULTX (Ultra Lightweight ATX) at 4 lbs 11.7 oz (4.73 lbs). It is perfectly balanced and hangs off my arm like a VLF. Hip mounted it is a featherweight coil so that would be good also. Really sweet, I am very happy with this!

[Lunk]

WTG Steve, great job!

[johnedoe]

An amazing transformation..... Great job Steve. 

By the way.... We all knew you could do it.

[Steve Herschbach]

Oh, I knew it would get done. One hallmark of my personality type is once I start something 99% of the time it will be followed through to completion. I can't stand leaving things unfinished so eventually I am almost forced to get them done or it just keeps bugging me.

Here is the Garrett LTX in better light. Click on photos for closeup. With 5" x 10" DD coil (4 lbs 11.7 oz or 4.73 lbs with batteries) and then also with 3" x 7" DD coil (4 lbs 6.2 oz or 4.39 lbs), and a closeup of the control box (2 lbs 6.1 oz or 2.38 lbs, hip or chest mountable).

[Ridge Runner]

Steve

 I think you said you sent a picture of the finish product to Garrett. I plan on making a Treasure Show in temple Texas at the end of April and I know Garrett Company will be there. I'm going to take pictures of yours to show them and ask if they got it.

You really done a great job. If you looked at the other detector before and now you'd think this can't be the same. Looks better with less weight.

Chuck

[GB_Amateur]

46 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Here is the Garrett LTX in better light. Click on photos for closeup. With 5" x 10" DD coil (4 lbs 11.7 oz or 4.73 lbs with batteries) and then also with 3" x 7" DD coil (4 lbs 6.2 oz or 4.39 lbs), and a closeup of the control box (2 lbs 6.1 oz or 2.38 lbs, hip or chest mountable).

Looks professional, and a lot more sophisticated than my MiY (Modify it Yourself) projects.  I'm impressed!  Either you had some full days off to work on it or this was a multi-late-night project.

How does the weight compare with similarly configured (i.e. same coil size) dry-land-qualified PI's?  If TDI-SL counts (w/Miner John 5x9), that beats it, but I'm wondering how many others do.  Not many (if any) from my observations.  Likely Garrett with their full time engineers could do even a bit better (e.g. lighter control box, lithium batteries,...), although that would possibly be getting into the diminishing returns area.

Bottom line:  great job.  You inspire me to get busy before the *real* spring weather takes me outside to use my detectors instead of modifying them. 

[Steve Herschbach]

It seems to be impossible to get it through detector manufacturer heads how important both power and ergonomics are to prospectors. The overwhelming majoring of us do not detect in wet conditions. Yes, I know some do, and it is nice that there are waterproof detectors for you. I however spent my whole life detecting in rainy conditions with normal dry land type detectors and it was never a serious issue. Just cover it up! What is most important to most prospectors is lots of power in well balanced lightweight packages. Right now it seems we have to choose between lots of power or lightweight and ergonomic. Minelab almost seems to go out of their way to make detectors heavier - the SDC 2300 could easily go into a simple package like I have made and for less money. And surely a factory can do a better job than I can. The SDC and the ATX both frustrate me to no end because they could be so much lighter and have such better coil options. In both cases it seems off the shelf military designs were used simply to help recoup the cost of development of those housings. Yeah, they are whiz bang neat in their way, but not the practical prospecting tool designs most of us crave.

[johnedoe]

I'm not to big on trendy styling...

Give me functional over trendy design any time.

[Steve Herschbach]

On 3/1/2017 at 9:50 AM, GB_Amateur said:

Looks professional, and a lot more sophisticated than my MiY (Modify it Yourself) projects.  I'm impressed!  Either you had some full days off to work on it or this was a multi-late-night project.

Not as many hours as it appears. More time rounding up parts/pieces and waiting for glue to dry than anything. If I had all the parts on hand and knew in advance what I was doing and had stayed on it solid it is a couple day project. Weights with batteries:

Minelab GPZ 7000 7.3 lbs

Garrett ATX 6.9 lbs

Minelab GPX 5.3 lbs on arm, 1.7 lb battery on back

Minelab SDC 2300 5.7 lbs

White's TDI (original model) 5.6 lbs

My Garrett LTX  4.73 lbs

White's TDI SL 3.5 lbs

The TDI SL at 3.5 lbs is the only one that has it right ergonomically. I just wish it had more horsepower. Garrett should be able to near match the TDI in weight with a factory made light weight ATX.

People may wonder why I keep chasing the ATX over using the already lighter TDI SL. The bottom line is the TDI is a single channel ground balancing PI that suffers from a "hole" or dead spot in its tuning somewhere around the 1/4 oz nugget range. It is hard to predict because nuggets vary so much in how they read. The ATX like the Minelab models uses dual ground balance channels, one that is better on smaller gold and one better on larger gold. Each channel has a "hole" but at different signal locations. The two channels are combined and the signal from the strongest channel is delivered to the operator. This does not completely eliminate detection holes but is a big improvement over single channel designs. https://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/559-interview-with-brent-weaver-senior-design-engineer-garrett-metal-detectors/

Anyone that has access to a TDI and ATX can try this test:

1.  Compare the TDI and ATX on targets that read very low on the conductivity scale, close to where non-ferrous items cross over to ferrous This would be low 40s (40 to 43) on an Garrett AT Target ID scale - see below. Similar to Fisher Gold Bug Pro and Nokta/Makro VDI scales where under 40 is ferrous and over 40 non-ferrous. You should see an ATX advantage here. Also, the TDI suffers from a performance loss in the 66 to 67 target ID range with GB = 8 at minimum 10 uS delay. The loss is significant. A 1” diameter target that should detect out to about 14” will fall off to only about 5”. As the TDI’s GB is adjusted up and down, this “hole” in detection simply slides up and down the conductivity scale but never goes away.

2. Try a ¾” x ¾” piece of common kitchen aluminum foil for a quick and easy target test to show the ATX superior detection of low-conductivity stuff.

Seriously, the Garrett ATX circuit in my opinion is the best I have used that is not made by Minelab and it compares favorably to Minelab PI series detectors. I believe the Minelabs excel over the ATX pretty much just because of more battery power and better coils. There is so much more Garrett can do here and it is frustrating they do not. I am surprised what with everyone else chasing the African markets that Garrett seems so disinterested. I get it, they have a fabulous consumer product lineup, innovative and successful. They are doing a great job with what they do. I just want more!

[Desert Dawg]

Very nice outcome, I like it much better than the military design. Now you can get started showing Minelab how the SDC2300 should look? hehe.