Jonathan Porter Talks Equinox And Gold Nuggets

[ophirboy]

The GM is semi submersible  and so has some use in shallow areas up to the control housing. But certainly the equinox can take a full dip , this like waterproof cell phones also has its disadvantages when it comes to useability , some equinox owners are already bemoaning the fact that the batteries are completely ensconsed inside the control unit unlike the GM  making it harder to replace or service , 

[ophirboy]

Well the unit certainly protests if you bash them but they can take it physically. I,m a lot more gentle on mine and having the little coil on the GM makes it easier , I guess the coil range and availability will ultimately decide how many current single frequency users swap to the new multi frequency units . I can’t see Minelab making any further units that don’t have multi iq technology

[mn90403]

Jonathan made some points in the blog that were very true for me in regards to the Equinox.  To me it is a great sounding gold machine.  You can adjust the threshold and the single frequency target response is very nice.  He did make a note that you have to take some of the initial positive ID numbers and dig based upon that.  It does want to jump after you start digging.  My settings and ground were not as good as Jonathan's but I feel like what Steve has said that the Equinox can find gold smaller than the 7000/14 (if you want it).  When I used the Equinox yesterday on areas where I had found many nuggets before I could imagine it finding lots of gold that is already gone.  I have no reason to buy a Monster now.  I might even consider selling my 2300 because it is a pain to use and the 800 is easy.

Mitchel

[Steve Herschbach]

The coil knock sensitivity issue quite honestly makes me crazy. I have tried and tried and I can’t seem to get what is going on across to people. I will try again because it will be an issue also with Equinox and Gold Mode.

Almost every detector made leaves significant horsepower on the table to make it safe for the masses. The hardware has limitations and the solution to almost every issue is to just lower the sensitivity/gain. Metal detector sensitivity/gain controls have a speed limit that is chosen by the manufacturers.

Novices (not referring to anyone here) are always going to complain about a detector being unstable. From their perspective it is broken. At the least it seems something was not designed properly. There is a huge reason why companies feel compelled to put a throttle limiter on a detector. It is pretty simple. They have an infinite sensitivity control. Turn it up until instability develops. Now back it down until the detector becomes stable, then make that the upper limit of the user control.

I hate it when I can run a detector 24/7 with the sensitivity control maxed out. I know there is power there I could have access to but it has been denied me to prevent complaints. The machine has been neutered to make it safe for the masses. I fight this constantly when I can and plead that the controls have far ranging upper limits. Leave it to me to decide how far I can go understanding the trade to be made - you are trading power for stability.

The Gold Bug Pro is basically immune to coil knock issues. However, I found my Gold Monster was as powerful as the Gold Bug Pro running at about 60% of full throttle. Minelab chose 45 kHz because of the balance that frequency provides. Yet by leaving the throttle open you can go head to head with a 71 kHz Gold Bug 2 and have a fair battle on tiny gold, while easily beating a Gold Bug 2 for depth in bad ground on larger nuggets. The price is instability at high gain levels exhibited by touch sensitivity in the coil.

Everyone wants it both ways but it is not that easy. It is a choice between this or that. The Gold Monster upper gain limit could have been locked around 70% and there would be almost no complaining about coil knock issues. I ask you all - is that what you want? Do not respond you want it all. Maybe someday but you can’t right now. You have to make the choice. Would you prefer the machine have been dumbed down to prevent this issue from occurring? Because I fought very hard for just the opposite, but if the message that gets sent is that people prefer stability then don’t blame me when your next machine is neutered.

I like the car anology. I give you a race car and you go to a twisting road, insist on flooring it and wreck. I explain you have to take the foot off the pedal if you do not want to crash. You reply that if you take the foot off the pedal the car won’t go as fast. I respond that’s true but if you crash you won’t be happy. You go crash again and I say take the foot off the pedal. You respond that that will make the car go too slow. After several rounds of this I go home and get drunk!  If knocking your head against a wall gets too painful then stop knocking your head against the wall. Or if you continue realize you are choosing to continue. It’s not the walls fault.

Gold Monster is a 45 kHz detector with gain and audio boost pushed so high it can run with a 71 kHz detector on tiny gold while still outperformaing it on larger gold at depth. The sensitivity/gain could have been limited to a much lower point and still have an extremely competitive detector for the price, and that quite honestly would have been more in keeping with the design intent as an easy to operate detector for beginners. Auto sensitivity is an offsetting solution to the issue, but again, only if people choose to use it. I have almost no coil issues with my Gold Monster because I raise the sensitivity until instability develops, then back off a hair. I am quite satisfied the machine will perform well at that level. If I do pump it to the max I usually only do so in small areas where I am willing to accept the trade off that occurs as regards coil knock issues.

Why does the Gold Bug 2 have such stable coils? Because it is optimized at 71 kHz which gives it the inherent edge on tiny gold at lower gain levels. The trade there is poor depth in bad ground one larger gold. There is no way the Gold Bug 2 can match Gold Monster in that area. Everything is a trade, every plus comes with a minus that balances the equation. Getting overall net gains is extremely difficult. And since I can normally run a Gold Bug 2 day in and day out at max sensitivity, it makes me wonder what it could do if the control ran into the “red zone”.

I am in no way saying there are not or at least were not some bad coils also which complicated things. I am not belittling anyone in any way with my comments here. I am just trying to explain that Minelab decided that “Performance Matters” and giving us access to every bit of it is paramount. But do realize trades are made to get peak performance, and stability at highest gain levels is a cost to be paid.

Same story with Equinox. I will always fight for removing throttle limiters. A control that goes to max without instability developing is not what I personally want. So yes, if you run Equinox at the highest sensitivity levels expect coil instability issues to appear. If you don’t like that, back the sensitivity off. It is a benefit, not a flaw. At least it is for me. Everyone should know by now I like my machines running hot and noisy. The upper end is for me. If the volume is too high, turn it down. If the threshold is too high, turn it down. If you don’t like coil knock issues or are having EMI problems or too much ground noise, turn down the sensitivity/gain!

Coils are as much art as science still and I think that coils can possibly be made for these machines that are more knock resistant at max gain levels, but anyone that thinks that is an easy task needs to talk to a detector engineer more. If the resources were applied and tolerances tight enough what if that resulted in a more resistant coil but it cost twice as much? Not only is it more difficult to mass produce high performance coils (many like Bigfoot are hand made) but the reject rate is much higher. Nothing is free.

I do like the “red zone” approach and am going to suggest in the future Minelab design sensitivity controls so that the upper limits are clearly marked to show that you are entering dangerous territory. That RPM dial on my truck dash has the upper limit marked in red for precisely the same reason. You can go there, but something may blow if you do!

[Steve Herschbach]

11 hours ago, mn90403 said:

I feel like what Steve has said that the Equinox can find gold smaller than the 7000/14 (if you want it)

Easily. GPZ is amazing but it does have even its own limits on the tiniest stuff. And in my opinion Multi-IQ can exceed Gold Monster performance but a coil set just for prospectors is critical to making it an even battle. Right this moment however if I was looking for a larger nugget, like couple gram plus I would probably opt for the Equinox with 11” round DD coil over the Gold Monster with 6” x 11” coil because just the coil size alone will be giving me an edge. And when the 12” x 15” coil hits the ground in milder soils it should be no contest at all in favor of Equinox on larger nuggets. To a large degree Gold Monster versus Equinox for nugget detecting is going to be a battle of the coils. I actually have little doubt that Minelab will not waste any more resources on single frequency detector designs and since I want to push the technology forward I will be using Equinox for nugget detecting even if it might not be my best option, just so I can learn it, provide feedback, and get the future here sooner. 

[Jonathan Porter]

There are a few things that I love about both detectors, the GM is designed for ease of use and does that job brilliantly with the ability for more aggressive sensitivity if required. Probably the 2 best things I love about the GM is the solid coils and the Auto Sensitivity, I'm not a real fan of zero threshold but it does allow the GM to be used in some pretty terrible ground. That ability is a compromise though because the zero threshold is acting like a filter essentially filtering out good info which then harks me back to the auto sensitivity+ aspect of the GM 1000 which does an amazing job behind the scenes.

Equinox goes about things in manner I love, pure horsepower with full control for the driver if they dare. There is however a side to the Equinox that is unique and to be honest is hard to nail down. Multi-IQ is hard to describe, the only way I can really analogize it is to say its kind of like digital audio compared to analogue audio, there is a smoothness to Multi-IQ that is very Analogue like to the ear, a rounding or evening out, kind of like someone filling in all the gaps to smooth out the ride. Because of that behavior I can then step into a horsepower mindset with the EQ800 that is simply fascinating. 

Please keep in mind I am comparing apples with apples, the EQ is in no way a MPS or ZVT beater. It has it place with high frequency VLF type detectors and should only be compared to them, especially in variable mineralised ground. In the right locations the EQ800 and GM1000 are good fun and will find tiny pickers the other techs just will not see, learn to target those locations and you have the gold that's available all to yourself. The key is selecting the right locations and using the units where they perform best.

JP

[MarXthespot]

4 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I think that coils can possibly be made for these machines that are more knock resistant and max gain levels, but anyone that thinks that is an easy task needs to talk to a detector engineer more.

Steve, do you know of a place I could learn a bit more about coil design and benefits of various designs?  I don't want to study for a degree in electrical engineering or quantum physics, but would like to know more than, here is a pic of some copper windings and a wire that goes to the control box.

Actually, I would like a degree in quantum physics and ee, but who has time for that??? 

[Steve Herschbach]

16 hours ago, MarXthespot said:

Steve, do you know of a place I could learn a bit more about coil design and benefits of various designs?  I don't want to study for a degree in electrical engineering or quantum physics, but would like to know more than, here is a pic of some copper windings and a wire that goes to the control box.

Actually, I would like a degree in quantum physics and ee, but who has time for that??? 

Carl Moreland’s Geotech Website & Forum

[ophirboy]

From what I have read here the coil  noise problem seems to be confined in the main to detectors that are being used in milder soils where users have the opportunity to run the unit into the hot sensitivity zone , the instructions that come with the GM clearly state that using high manual sensitivity settings may not be possible for all conditions and for my areas , and I would guess a lot of goldfields especially in Victoria (AUS) the mineralization is so bad that even Auto plus setting is going to struggle . So for a lot of us Aussie owners the coil noise is not an issue. So for you guys in the US and other milder locations it’s either a glass half full situation or glass half empty. But personally I wish sometimes I could ramp the unit up a bit and put up with a bit of coil noise . 

[Steve Herschbach]

Gotta ask John, if the Gold Bug 2 will do just as well on your ground and your gold why put up with the noise? Just use the Gold Bug 2. I prefer the Gold Monster for my situation but it differs from yours. I can’t figure out why you persevere with the Monster. Given all you describe I would not so I must be missing something.

I would suspect a GPZ small coil would make it all a moot discussion. The sensitivity of the GPZ to small gold with the stock coil has been well proven and I have to believe a small coil would be hotter yet if they can make it small enough.

Anyway, back to Equinox and gold. For a VLF it is a true gold performer and I have to think any new VLF gold detectors we see from Minelab would be based on Multi-IQ. And no matter the machine, maybe Minelab can put some of their technology magic to work on new VLF coil designs. It is pointless to have great detectors if the coils end up being the weak point.