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Which Frequency Is Running In Each Mode?


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Great discussion, I plan to keep using a modified B2 setting (that I have been using in my beach and sand) and place the default B1 into the user bin as a checker. With the difficulty in quickly recovering targets at the surf line I don’t mind a reduced power mode. 

Course nothing beats a good target under the coil. There has been so much sand dumped over my 30 mile beach range it will take a multi day noreaster or tropical storm in the summer to get down where the old stuff I hunt lives. Still get a nice new drop surprise from time to time. The ocean is an ornery giver and a taker.

So in the mean time, I test settings and condition my old self for ‘the day’. 

Thanks to both of you

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1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

I could be reading it wrong because it just says "Beach Mode" but I assume it applies to both Beach 1 and Beach 2.

Well, the illustration in that snippet show the Beach 1 icon.  I think that answers the question/concern!  Thanks for the completeness -- I wasn't aware of this override as I never hunt saltwater beaches (and only seldom freshwater beaches).

I recall Andy Sabisch's book (in which you are featured 😄) where one of the several 'canned' user setups involved using Beach 1 on dry land.  I have always been a bit suspicious that this would limit some things that the alternate modes (Parks and Fields) wouldn't.  And when comparison videos are made where the comparer puts the Equinox in Beach mode in a dry land site to draw conclusions....  But from the manual I now think my suspicions may be unfounded.

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On 1/16/2022 at 3:22 PM, Chase Goldman said:

Billy,

Yes, pretty much.  All I'm saying is that the individual selectable frequencies and the marketing term 5Fx8 are separate and distinct from Multi-IQ.  About the only thing you can infer is that the various Multi-IQ modes in total, roughly cover the 4 to 40 khz range.

Thanks helping me clarify. Personally, I don't want to share information that is actually inaccurate, so I often ask if someone agrees or disagrees. I enjoy an awareness of technically correct background knowledge, but at times I go out on a weak limb which usually falls.

Billy

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44 minutes ago, GrievousAngel said:

Thanks helping me clarify. Personally, I don't want to share information that is actually inaccurate, so I often ask if someone aggress or disagrees. I enjoy an awareness of technically correct background knowledge, but at times I go out on a weak limb which usually falls.

Billy

No problem.  That's the point of this forum.  To discuss and get to the bottom of these things to the extent we can with the limited info the manufacturers choose to provide to us.  If you don't go out on that limb and put it out there, then nobody learns anything.

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21 hours ago, FloridaSon said:

Is Beach 1 & 2 then a different range or does the salt ‘balance’ make the only difference? Thanks 

I think we are saying the same thing. In a previous thread I clarified what I was saying.

Please refer to latest Equinox Manual. Frequency, p. 29. I was relating to this page. it's just a marketing thing. With v3.x and the addition of 4kHz (3,7kHz) as a single frequency (even though not included in Multi-IQ algorisms, it does expand the range or ratio to ~ 11, therefore the marketing graphic could/would 6Fx11 (800) and 4Fx4 (600). 

BTW, that was not the main idea I was interested in. Further into my comments I referred to -3db point of a given single  frequency. I was relating [it] to the half-power level of the transmitted alternating wave and the resulting received alternating wave prior to being processed into a maximum magnitude. I think it is the R component. I was hoping someone would expand on the -3db point of a given frequency, as I understand it, that would yield the strongest returned signal for processing.

Please refer to the article Selectable Frequency and Multiple Frequency, p. 1-2. This part of the article was taken from a previous work by George Payne at http://jb-ms.com/Baron/payne.htm. 

Thanks, Billy

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45 minutes ago, GrievousAngel said:

Further into my comments I referred to -3db point of a given single  frequency. I was relating [it] to the half-power level of the transmitted alternating wave and the resulting received alternating wave prior to being processed into a maximum magnitude. I think it is the R component. I was hoping someone would expand on the -3db point of a given frequency, as I understand it, that would yield the strongest returned signal for processing.

Please refer to the article Selectable Frequency and Multiple Frequency, p. 1-2. This part of the article was taken from a previous work by George Payne at http://jb-ms.com/Baron/payne.htm.

Billy - That link doesn't work for me.  It goes to a domain name hawking site.  Did some searching and Steve also references it in a very comprehensive post in the second link below.  It might answer your question...  The significance of the -3db/half power point (-3dB is by definition the half power point of any frequency or time dependent power waverform whose peak is 0dB) is the excitation frequency where the R (resistive) component of the target peaks and also happens to be where the target's X (reactive) component is at 1/2 power from it's peak, hence, the -3dB designation. The resistive component provides the target conductivity information while the X component provides the phase shift information to help identify ferrous/non-ferrous.  It is, of course, a lot more complicated than that and you can learn more from this reference that you can download from Steve's site: 

Steve's discussion of how frequency affects target detectability:

HTH

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On 1/16/2022 at 8:31 AM, GrievousAngel said:

Without Minelab’s white paper articles, it’s difficult to be sure so we all tend to apply educated-guesstimates. For keeping it simpler, just consider the Nox800. 

Since v3.x, the lowest single freq is 4kHz (3.7kHz). 5Fx8 is not accurate. I suggest using 3.7 [not 4] to determine ratio or range. IMHO, range ratio is 11, therefore marketing icon might be 6Fx11.

Y’all agree?

What interest me more is the use of -3db Half-Power Level for determining the exact preferred frequency. I assume it is used in terms of single and Muli-IQ frequencies.

I will finish this thread below on Andy’s reply.

Thanks 
 

Well, for starters, 4kKz was added after all that. You are pulling up an old thread. And really it’s just a marketing tag, not an explanation of the facts of the tech at work. It was a simplistic was of counting frequencies and modes on 800 versus frequencies and modes on 600. That’s it, nothing more.

And I’m not Andy. :smile:

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16 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Well, for starters, 4kKz was added after all that. You are pulling up an old thread. And really it’s just a marketing tag, not an explanation of the facts of the tech at work. It was a simplistic was of counting frequencies and modes on 800 versus frequencies and modes on 600. That’s it, nothing more.

And I’m not Andy. :smile:

I’m sorry Steve. For some reason I thought you where Andy S. My apologies Steve  

I understand it is a  marketing thing and not to be referred to as technically correct.

i was more interested in the -3db point of a selected single frequency as discussed on a different thread.

Billy
 

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10 hours ago, GrievousAngel said:

I’m sorry Steve. For some reason I thought you where Andy S. My apologies Steve  

I understand it is a  marketing thing and not to be referred to as technically correct.

i was more interested in the -3db point of a selected single frequency as discussed on a different thread.
 

No worries, Andy is the smart one, I’m the pretty one! :laugh:

I will leave the deep dive into frequency tech to others. I have a good layman’s grasp of it all, but I’m no wizard. I do know there is way more to things than just frequency, and focusing too much on it now does not necessarily serve anyone but engineers all that well.

For example, you can study specs all day long on, for instance, Apex vs Vanquish or Legend, or even my old DFX. Yet it is only actually using the detectors side by side that tells you anything real, and what you learn fast is that what looks perfect on paper, may not be so in actual use. Apex is a good example of a detector that was created just to say “we have a multi”, but which in actual use will not have many people ditching their Garrett AT models. Other than possibly saltwater, it would be a step down, not up, as is evidenced by Garrett placing it as an Ace, rather than at a higher price than the AT models.

Long story short, for regular folks like me, things under the hood are getting way more complicated than appears on the surface, with hybrid processes moving us past the world of simple explanations. And at the end of the day, while I told myself I needed those single frequency options on Equinox to get best performance options under all conditions, reality is I am in multi 99% of the time. Single frequency is only rarely helpful, maybe for a certain hot rock or target, or an EMI situation.

Anyway, I did my best to put some basic information out there for the lay people amongst us, but from my perspective I have little interest in delving into the subject any deeper, and will leave it to brighter minds than mine. I’m pretty satisfied right now to just grab what we have got and go use it, and trust that the squirrel running on the wheel under the hood is doing it’s job. :smile:

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9 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

No worries, Andy is the smart one, I’m the pretty one! :laugh:

I will leave the deep dive into frequency tech to others. I have a good layman’s grasp of it all, but I’m no wizard. I do know there is way more to things than just frequency, and focusing too much on it now does not necessarily serve anyone but engineers all that well.

For example, you can study specs all day long on, for instance, Apex vs Vanquish or Legend, or even my old DFX. Yet it is only actually using the detectors side by side that tells you anything real, and what you learn fast is that what looks perfect on paper, may not be so in actual use. Apex is a good example of a detector that was created just to say “we have a multi”, but which in actual use will not have many people ditching their Garrett AT models. Other than possibly saltwater, it would be a step down, not up, as is evidenced by Garrett placing it as an Ace, rather than at a higher price than the AT models.

Long story short, for regular folks like me, things under the hood are getting way more complicated than appears on the surface, with hybrid processes moving us past the world of simple explanations. And at the end of the day, while I told myself I needed those single frequency options on Equinox to get best performance options under all conditions, reality is I am in multi 99% of the time. Single frequency is only rarely helpful, maybe for a certain hot rock or target, or an EMI situation.

Anyway, I did my best to put some basic information out there for the laypeople amongst us, but from my perspective I have little interest in delving into the subject any deeper, and will leave it to brighter minds than mine. I’m pretty satisfied right now to just grab what we have got and go use it, and trust that the squirrel running on the wheel under the hood is doing it’s job. :smile:

I emailed Minelab referring to my interest in the -3db frequency half-power level and it's impact on receiving the maximum returned signal for processing. I also referred to the George Payne article that was referenced in the article named Single Frequency and Multiple Frequency.

I just got a reply from Minelab engineering stating that information is not available for public consumption. So maybe it is deeply woven into Minelab's Multi-IQ weighting algorithms. From my limited point of view, it would seem logical.

I've taken this about as far as reasonable plus I learned a little along the way. Thanks for your advice. Moving on.

Billy

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