Discrimination Settings Feedback Needed...

[Happa54]

Hey everyone...

First off I'd like to say that coming from another popular forum, I find this one to be the most educational, informative and administered. I have followed enough of Steve H's wisdom in this hobby to know that this forum is now at the top of my list for all around metal detecting, no matter which brand. 

This is my 2nd post on this forum so I hope I'm in the right place with this.

My question is with discrimination with the Nox 600. We've mostly been taught that Minelab machines perform at their best when discrimination is at a minimum. Thus, I've been running my Safari with iron only disc'd out. Now with the Nox, I'm reading articles/posts where others say the Nox will handle a significant amount of disc'ing with no notable differences in performance. Do you find this to be true?

I only have approx 30 hours on mine and I've run it in all 3 modes and I have played with the disc settings somewhat. The 2 times I have run with high disc I notice the Nox gets faint on the signals almost as if it's having a slight power failure or is struggling to identify targets. I've seen a couple of youtubers running it with more disc than its default settings and it looks to be running smoothly.

I hunt some of the trashiest parks in Los Angeles and my ears get a serious pounding with zinc, pull tab, and iron signals. Coming from the Safari and into the Nox is like being under machine gun fire with the signals. I've set my machine to disc out iron up to +11 and 14 - 19. Basically I only want to hear nickels and high conductors (only in super trash parks). When I disc out this way, is when I lose all confidence in the machine due to the change in its operation. Maybe I'm backing off too soon and not giving it a chance to work its way through. 

Of the modes given, I like field 1, GB 0, sens 22, 50 tones, multi freq, iron bias 0, speed 3. I toggle back and forth between modes and field 1 thus far seems to work best for me but this could change as I get to know my Nox. 

Anyone have comments or examples to share using high disc is appreciated.

As always HH everyone.  

 

[Skate]

I'd try 5 tones and up your recovery speed to 7 and keep 11-13 open for nickels as I've found them at 11,12,13. 

The key to the Nox is it's ability to separate different targets close together. By dropping your speed to 3 your hampering what the machine does best. In my parks I use park 2 exclusively and I only hunt in 5 tones. If I'm cherry picking looking for old coins I'll disc out up to 10, 14-18, and 37-40 and my recovery speed is always 7. 

Best to you.

[steveg]

Happa --

I understand what you are saying about the lack of confidence.  Hunting with no confidence in the machine is a killer.  Been there, done that.  Here's something to try.  Next time you find what you suspect is a deep coin, switch between no disc, and the disc. pattern you have set up, and sweep the coin both ways.  See what kind of response you get, both with and without disc.  Note the results.  I think you will need to "prove it" to yourself, in order to have the confidence in running with disc...

Steve

[strick]

Ditto what he said on the 5 tones and keeping  the recovery up there 6-7 range is what I've been doing. 5 tones makes it much easier on the ears.  I've been using park 1...Park 2 is very busy with all the low tones. The 2 gram gold ring I found was a 10 on the meter...  so I've been digging anything that hits solid 7 and above. Trashy parks will overwhelm you with all the can slaw. Right now I'm just trying to keep it simple as I learn the machine. Targets sound much different in and out of the ground with the Nox as compared to the CTX where the targets kinda sound the same in and out of the ground. Probably not much help but  it's all about digging right now I guess as we learn it. 

strick 

[flakmagnet]

The replies above should help you. I have found that messing with the settings including recovery speed and Iron Bias while you are over what seems to be a good target is very helpful and I highly recommend it. I too am hunting LA parks and know your problems with trashy ground but once you switch to 5 -Tones and get comfortable with how the sounds come through, I am willing to bet you will feel much more confidence. I would also suggest that you not notch quite so many numbers but instead, listen to the sounds and watch what the VDI is doing. After a little time trying this, you will pretty much know from the sound what to move on from and what to dig. Good hunting...

[Chase Goldman]

And as Skate mentioned above, that All Metal (horseshoe) button is invaluable for interrogating targets and a genius move by ML to put it right there on the panel for instant access.  I only disc out iron, if that, because I want to hear it all, but sometimes the audio information is just too much and I need to run quieter so I can hit that button and iron disc is back.  The other thing I will mention is that you said "three" modes.  I am sure you know this, but just in case.  Park 1 couldn't be more different than Park 2 in terms of MultiIQ implementation, so I would not think of both Park modes as the same or similar modes because they are programmed to favor different types of targets, same with Field.  The beaches appear more similar but they too are diffrent. Consider them six separate modes with different characteristics and uses. The Park/Field "1" modes tend to hit harder on high conductors and the Park/Field "2" modes tend to hit harder on small, mid-conductors because of their respective frequency weightings.  See the manual for more detailed info.  Again apologize if you know all this already, but maybe simeone else may benefit.  HH.

[SittingElf]

8 hours ago, Skate said:

I'd try 5 tones and up your recovery speed to 7 and keep 11-13 open for nickels as I've found them at 11,12,13. 

The key to the Nox is it's ability to separate different targets close together. By dropping your speed to 3 your hampering what the machine does best. In my parks I use park 2 exclusively and I only hunt in 5 tones. If I'm cherry picking looking for old coins I'll disc out up to 10, 14-18, and 37-40 and my recovery speed is always 7. 

Best to you.

He has a 600, Recovery 3 is the equivalent of 7 on the 800, so he's already maxed.

[Steve Herschbach]

Thanks for the kind words! 

Most targets produce multiple target id numbers. That’s why target id numbers jump around. When you block any part of the signal, and one of those jumpy numbers, you reduce the target signal strength. You might even miss a target completely.

We usually get one chance of detecting a target. That one pass. Let’s say you have a nickel that might read 12 or 13 depending on how you sweep it. You have 12 blocked and 13 open. The nickel on the first and only pass reads 12 so you miss it.

I normally hunt 50 tones wide open for this reason. However, there is no right and wrong, just different methods depending on the goal. I have also experimented with aggressive discrimination and been happy with the results. If a target hits hard in the region I have left open the depth loss I feel is minimal or non-existent. The weaker/jumpier the target, the more chance it is producing multiple target id numbers or skewed numbers, the more chance it could fall into a region I have rejected and be either weaker or missed. Target id on any detector can vary due to mineralization and nearby trash pulling numbers one way or the other.

Again, no right or wrong, just a judgement call on where to draw the line and what works best for you personally. Some like to cherry pick, some hate the thought of missing anything at all.

Here is a hunt where I blocked everything but 12 - 13 - 14.

[Happa54]

Thanks for your comments everyone.

My learning curve is a long one even though from looking at the minimal and simplified options on the Nox dashboard....still, there are options where one outweighs the other depending on the type of hunt and where you are hunting.

I see valuable information in each of your responses and I will work with them on my next outing which this Sunday will be my first "all day" hunt with the Nox. As with my Safari, I like to run my machine to the max in every aspect. I basically operate between AM and iron disc because I like to hear as much as I can under the coil. 

The 600 at recov speed 3 is equal to recov speed 6 on the 800. It also works on the same scale with Iron Bias. So, even at my highest Nox speed setting, it's overwhelming when compared to the other ML FBS machines. 

I hunt off & on with a couple of Etrac and Explorer HOT SHOTS who out-hunt me 5 to 1 on silvers & wheats and pretty much all good finds. They seem to move along at a good pace while I lag behind, (although I have a much faster machine) sifting through all the signals/targets. And this is why I struggle with “to disc or not to disc” with my Nox.

As a side note: The one thing I noticed when in Park 2 is that I pick up itsy bitsy pieces of metal which takes up too much time to look for. Hence, why I use Field 1.

Although it seems that I have some things to complain about at this point, I am also appreciative of my finds thus far given the short time I’ve used the Nox.

A couple of the silvers in the pic were buried under large nails but their target ID and tones were mixed in with the nails. I can’t say I remember digging silver with the Safari under those conditions, but I could be wrong…and I got a good amount of silver last year.

Now SteveH !!!!!  You just threw me into a headspin, and a big smile too. You have guts to hunt with just those nickel signals opened up. I would have been afraid to thinking the Nox wouldn’t perform satisfactorily under that kind of aggressive blocking. Man do I have a lot to learn. If you can remember, what was your deepest nickel that day? Some appear to have come from depth.

 

[Steve Herschbach]

1 hour ago, Happa54 said:

Now SteveH !!!!!  You just threw me into a headspin, and a big smile too. You have guts to hunt with just those nickel signals opened up. I would have been afraid to thinking the Nox wouldn’t perform satisfactorily under that kind of aggressive blocking. Man do I have a lot to learn. If you can remember, what was your deepest nickel that day? Some appear to have come from depth.

I think most of us think the same thing which is why I undertook the experiment. That was a few months ago and I don’t remember anything being especially deep. They were probably all 6” or less.

The only way to learn really is to experiment. It does not take any guts because it’s pretty risk free. Nothing says you can’t go back and hunt the same place again with different settings so just give it a go and see what happens. The horseshoe button makes it easy to set up a pattern with almost every thing blocked. You can flip back and forth between extreme disc settings and wide open and compare signals on targets found in the field before digging.