By nugget hunter nz
So my new Whites 24k arrived this morning finally after some issues with New Zealand post "before I begin I must give a big shout out to the guys at sneedens who are brokers for customs etc they made everything very simple for me... Right back to the detecter.. I wasn't sure what to expect as there is very little information out there bar the odd person and dealers pushing it. As I've owned many detectors over the years minelab grew on me as my favorite mainly because they were simply superior to the rest. Anyway I wiped up a unboxing video
I then moved on to do some playing just with air tests and tho they are just that air tests I was pretty dam gobsmacked to say the least as it was pouring down out side icouldn't venture out to do some ground tests but from the air tests it's got the monster for depth
The rain finally gave up this arvo so I grabed some gold ranging from non registering to 1.68 gm and in between. And set out for a spot close to me that was one of the big gold rush areas
, now I'd taken the gm1000 here before and it was quite chatty in the upper sensitivity regions as the gm1000 is generally. Now once there I had a play with the 24k just with settings etc and to my surprise the ground there registered 90 on the ground balance to hot as hell was no wonder the gm1000 struggeled here but I was running the 24k max sens 10 vsat lowest it goes and the threshold was rock stable I was using locked ground balance and I do have to say that both the ground grab and xgb was incredibly quick to balance. No the ground is full of black sand so it did kill the depth on targets but not as much as I thought and I could still get the 0.00 non registering bit even with a layer ground on top . But I have already found a quirk with this machine that's a positive if you put it in xgb but run it with a negative ground balance of about - 2 for 30 seconds or so then lock it change it to positive 2 and then manual ground grab the machine goes as quiet as a church mouse with just the threshold hum no hot rock or ground feed back only targets make any noise.. But it hit every target clean and at good depth that 6 inch round is impressive but I can't wait for the 4x6 early next month... Now I also found the threshold as almost to stable for the sensitivity as I said I started on max and was stable as with bit of ground noise that I was able to get rid of as mentioned above. Now when I turned the sensitivity down to 7 I gained depth.. Lol yes gained I think on 10 it was geting over loaded by the black sand abit even tho my threshold was rock solid I gave up playing with my gold targets and went for we hunt knowing people use it for sighting in rifles there and I managed to pick out lead fragment one after the other as I went along.. Also worth noting there is Zero and I mean zero coil noise you can bash it scrape it knock it on things and not a peep... its going to be a learning curve to learn its qurkes but so far I have to say it beats the monster in just about every aspect apart from the monster being able to be custom made on broom stick or bush branch lol..
By nugget hunter nz
Admin Note: split from existing thread here
Hi mate just stumbled across this post I'm in the market for new vlf having had the monster1k gb2 nox800 here in nz the monster eats the gb2 for breakfast on depth size etc and I had to sell as got stuck with alot of Bill's and I've been tossing up between the older gmt and 24k or go back to a monster... what I didnt like about the monster was lack of functions even tho it does its job well I'm a seasoned user and like to tinker ... how do you find the 24k compared to the older gmt ... both in how small will either detect I'm guessing the 24k will or should pick up alot smaller gold ...and qill the 24 on right settings pick up same small stuff as the monster ? I was regurly finding almost sand size bits that wouldnt register on scale ..even tho thwy were pointless to find and sometimes anoying was nice to know I could find them ... any eedbal would be great ... Also do you know if the older goldmaster 4x6 coil is compatible with the 24k I'd love a small coil like that on one I loved the gb2 small coil for bedrock hunting over the small round
Hi, I just had to register and reply to this thread. I own a Fisher Gold Bug 2, a Gold Monster 1000 and now a Whites Goldmaster 24K. Ive also owned a Goldmaster Vsat, Goldmaster III and a GMT. Having used all of these, I have to say that the 24K isnt the most sensitive of the high frequency VLF's out there. Right now, the old Gold Bug 2 with the 6.5x3" is still king of the heap and the GM1000 is able to beat that under some circumstances. BUT, the 24K has the smoothest ground balance Ive ever used and rock-stable threshold. It finds deeper sub-gram gold than all of them using that 6.5" concentric coil. I had the opportunity to run side by side with a friend using a GM1000 and although he got 6 bits of gold to my 2, all but one of them was under .05, whereas my 2 weighed .4gm. I also found 22 bits of junk, versus his 4. All of this was from a patch that has been completely hammered over 3 decades. Last few times I used a GB2 there, I got nothing. Methinks the higher coil power and the matched concentric coil along with the XGB tracking make for a very powerful new machine for small gold. I am very keen to try the upcoming 6x3 shooter DD coil soon as the 10x5 seems pretty good on hotter ground here in Victoria. I'll keep you all posted with my finds. One thing I MUST say about the GM1000 in comparison though....some guys here are using them to great effect by ignoring the basic rule of reducing sensitivity to allow proper ground balance. They run them flat out at manual 10 sensitivity and then cannot even ground balance....but on quiet or mild ground, the digital audio of the Monster eliminates much of the noise and the tiniest gold can be 'plucked' from the pops, clicks and farts of the SAT adjustments and hot rock re-tunes.....but only by those people who have their 'ears tuned' to the sounds properly. Me personally, these noises are maddening and I rush back to the smoothness of the 24K and listen for the bigger, weightier targets. Stay tuned for results here folks!
By nugget hunter nz
WATHCH THIS SPACE FOR SHOOT OUT BETWEEN MONSTER AND NOX AND 24K WITH NO BIAS
So with my thoughts of going back to a gm1000 that I loved or try the new 24k that theres little reviews out there I took the risk I live in nz and brought out of the states was deal I couldnt pass up the 6 round came free if I brought the normal 6x10 model so worked out cheaper than export pack .whites ate also in the process of realeasimg the 4x6 coil for 24k .. should arrive around 17th may . My friend still has both his gm1000 and nox 800 so soon as it arrives and I get few hours under my belt with the 24k I'll get some videos up asap with direct tests on all three in ground on real targets how small all three go depth so finaly will be something out there to help people make a decision ... I'm hoping it can compete with the gm1000 or might be a cheap 24k for sale in nz ?
By Steve Herschbach
The White's Goldmaster 24K is a new 48 kHz gold nugget detector released in the fall of 2018. Production models started shipping in September and White's forwarded one to me to check out. What follows are my thoughts after a couple days of detecting for gold on several northern Nevada nugget patches.
The Goldmaster 24K marks a break with the past as White's moves from the older metal box designs of the past to newer plastic cases. The Goldmaster 24K physical design is the latest in the evolution of the MX series. The control box itself is derived directly from that used on the White's MX5. The control pod / display originated with the TreasurePro and later used in the MX Sport and MX7 designs. Basically the Goldmaster 24K is in the same housing and rod design as the White's MX7.
Manufacturers face a difficult design choice these days. In general users want metal detectors to be as light as possible. However, weight is not everything - balance matters every bit as much. The problem is that a metal detector search coil is basically a weight on the end of a long stick. Coils can only be made so light due to engineering constraints requiring a certain amount of copper wire and a reasonably robust coil housing. The coil then has a lot to do with determining the final ergonomics of the detector. If the coil weight is not balanced at the other end with some kind of offsetting weight, the detector is nose heavy. This in turn creates torque everytime the detector changes directions which puts stress on the operators arm.
The detector can be made as light as possible, or can be perfectly balanced, but it is almost impossible to do both in one detector. Any detector that weighs less than 3 pounds is almost certain to be nose heavy because enough weight does not exist to balance the weight of the coil. In order to have enough weight to work with it appears the minimum is about 3.5 lbs for detectors that are well balanced. The extra weight is almost always in the form of a battery box located under the elbow. White's has gone this route is the MX series designs with a battery box holding 8 AA batteries under the elbow acting as a balancing weight. This results not only in a well balanced detector but a detector with enough batteries to operate for multiple days between charges or battery changes.
White's Goldmaster 24K metal detector for gold prospecting
Another big choice manufacturers have to make these days is whether to use a straight rod or a "S" rod design. Users tend to be evenly split as to which they prefer, and so this is a choice the manufacturer cannot possibly win. About half the people are going to be unhappy whichever way you go. Industrial type users like beach hunters and prospectors tends to prefer straight rods. Coin, jewelry, and relic hunters seem more inclined to "S" rods. I have used many detectors with either setup and have been happy with both or unhappy with both. The deciding factor for me has been more about the exact size, shape, and angle of the hand grip than the actual rod design. I do not have over-sized hands, and so I tend to prefer a smaller diameter grip. Other people like a larger grip.
I went into all that detail to be sure the reader understands that weight and balance is very much a personal preference item. Getting a detector to fit right for everyone is like making a pair of boots that fits everyone. You can't do it. Therefore when I say that the MX physical design as employed in the Goldmaster 24K is a very good fit for me don't take that as meaning it will be great for you. Yet it is a very good fit for me and quite comfortable on my arm, with just enough forward weight to keep my elbow in the arm cup without having to use the arm strap. The design is also lighter than the White's GMT by nearly half a pound, so the Goldmaster 24K is both well balanced and lighter than what came before. The Goldmaster 24K with 10" elliptical coil and with batteries installed weighs 3 lbs 7 oz (3.4 lbs) or 1562 grams on my digital postal scale.
The Goldmaster 24K has an IP54 rated enclosure that has a high level of protection against dust particles, and a fair amount of protection against water. The coils are waterproof but the detector itself is not submersible so keep that display pod out of the water. The "S" rod is a three piece design with excellent quality twist locks that create a firm, wobble free rod assembly when fully engaged. The armrest position is not adjustable but it is well placed.
The 24K is powered by eight AA batteries in a battery holder that pops out of the rear of the battery box. The 24K is supplied with eight alkaline AA batteries but rechargeable batteries may be substituted for use in the battery holder. The 24K can get up to 40 hours operation using high quality alkaline batteries and while using headphones (external speakers use more power). The Goldmaster 24K does have a speaker built into the rear of the display pod, and there is a female 1/4" headphone jack directly above the battery door. White's thoughtfully includes a small plastic plug to insert into this hole when not in use.
White's 24K battery holder and headphone jack location
The Goldmaster 24K comes with a 5.5" x 10" DD coil as the stock coil. A 6.5" round concentric coil is available as an option. Scuff covers for the coil are not included with the detector or when you buy an accessory coil - they are separate optional items.
The 5.5" x 10" DD search coil weighs 14.5 oz or 412 grams. The coil is 1" thick. The 6.5" round concentric coil is 3/4" thick and weighs 13.1 oz or 370 grams. Therefore the 24K when outfitted with the 6" concentric weighs in at 3 lbs 5 oz (3.3 lbs). White's possibly has a 13.5" x 8" DD available soon that weighs 1 lb 8 oz or 682 grams. Finally, a version of the 4" x 6" Shooter DD is in the works also. Neither of these coils is available for sale as of March 2019 so for now the GMK has one accessory coil (the 6" concentric) available for purchase. Do note that all pre-existing coils for other White's Goldmaster or GMT models are not compatible with the Goldmaster 24K. The 24K pumps about 50% more voltage to the coils than previous models, requiring tighter tolerances in the new coils. The coil connector has been changed to prevent confusion.
5.5" x 10" DD search coil and 6.5" round concentric coil for White's Goldmaster 24K
The Goldmaster 24K shares many functions with the White's GMT model but there are differences. The most obvious being that the GMT uses knobs for control adjustments. The 24K uses a sealed touchpad which is more water and dust resistant, but some controls have secondary functions that necessitate having the Quick Guide near at hand when learning the detector.
The 24K like the GMT does of course have a sensitivity control, and like on all hot VLF detectors it is a critical control. The solution to most problems regarding metal detector instability or interference is to reduce the sensitivity.
The 24K features both automatic ground tracking or a fixed ground balance adjusted via a tap of a "ground grab" button - in this case the pinpoint button, which doubles as a ground grab when given a quick tap. Ground tracking can be a great function for variable ground and people new to detecting. Personally I prefer to lock the ground setting (via the "Lock" button) and update it manually via the ground grab function. I did use the ground tracking however, just to try it out. It is lightning quick, taking just a pump or two to track into the ground. Ground grabs are instantaneous.
The White's GMT allowed for a locked ground balance to be tweaked up or down manually via plus or minus buttons on the control pod. The 24K takes a slightly different route by allowing a "ground balance offset" to be dialed into the detector. The ground balance offset is a powerful feature and so deserves some explanation. Prospectors often prefer manual ground balance because they can choose their own setting that for various reason might be different than what a machine will choose using a preset function like ground grab. Ground grab may be set to deliver a very neutral ground balance. The prospector may prefer that the balance be slightly positive to help enhance tiny nugget signals. They may want to choose a ground balance setting halfway between the ground itself and some pesky hot rock, which may mean adjusting either positive or negative from the neutral setting. This might require that the operator first do a ground grab, then hit the plus button a couple times to manually offset the ground balance.
The 24K has a "Follow The Black Sand" mode like on the GMT but it is now called Ground Scan. Ground Scan is enabled by pushing and holding the ground balance "Lock" button. While in Ground Scan the "Up" and "Down" buttons create a ground balance offset. This offset is retained when you leave Ground Scan mode and will be applied both when doing a ground grab and even while in ground tracking mode.
The Ground Scan / Follow The Black Sand thing is intended to allow a prospector to locate and trace shallow magnetic sand deposits that might indicate potential gold concentrations. This is a rarely used function, but including the offset ability means this function may be accessed much more often just to create these ground balance offsets. With the GMT you could ground grab and then manually tweak the setting, but the tweak had to be applied every time the ground grab is performed. Now the offset can be dialed in and automatically applied. The real zinger however is that this also allows the 24K ground tracking function to be directly tweaked - very, very rare indeed. Almost every detector I have ever used has a preset ground tracking circuit that puts the ground balance where it wants, end of story. With the White's Goldmaster 24K you can create a tracking offset to deal with hot rocks in a way that simply can't be done with most other ground tracking systems. Really cool White's!
White's Goldmaster 24K with 13.5" x 8" DD coil (prototype lacking decal)
The 24K has the volume control the GMT lacks which is quite handy for those who want to run without headphones but not necessarily at full volume. There are 8 levels of volume plus two boost settings, Boost 1 (b1) and Boost 2 (b2) that kick in when you adjust the volume control above 8.
The GMT features a Variable Self Adjusting Threshold (V/SAT) control that governs the rate at which the audio resets itself when passing over a target or ground variations. The GMT has a knob that runs from 1 to 10 and on the Goldmaster 24K the SAT setting has been simplified to three settings - off, medium, and fast. The default setting of medium is all most people will ever need. However, in extreme low mineral ground the off setting can enhance weak signals, although the detector may need very careful coil control and slower coil sweeps to allow the circuit to keep up. Conversely, extreme high mineral variable ground may require the fast setting to smooth out variations in the ground signal.
The threshold control itself is interesting. Normally on an old school threshold based all metal detector the all metal mode and threshold are one and the same. The Goldmaster 24K like some newer digital models appears to employ what is referred to as a "reference threshold". The threshold may be adjusted, but appears to be disconnected from the all metal channel and is instead layered on in parallel. The SAT control above does directly affect the all metal channel as described above. Yet it does what it does whether the threshold is present or not. Reference thresholds often exist for the sole purpose of nulling or going silent when passing over items that have been discriminated out, but this does not happen when the Iron Cancel (see below) is engaged. While bench testing in all metal with the SAT set at zero I thought I might just be able to hear a waver in the threshold. I would be interested in hearing from other nugget hunting experts on this matter, because in my opinion the threshold as it exists on the Goldmaster 24K is not coupled to the all metal channel in the manner one would observe on the GMT for instance. The only effect seems to be with threshold completely off the 24K will no longer give any ground feedback at all if out of ground balance. Based purely on what I am observing in actual use I would say the 24K is a silent search detector with a reference threshold added as opposed to a true threshold based all metal circuit like on the GMT. The difference is subtle but there for my ear at least and if there is a connection there between threshold and all metal channel, it is too minimal for me to discern while in actual use.
Now we get into the real meat of where the GMT and Goldmaster 24K part ways. The GMT has an iron (ferrous) probability meter as does the Goldmaster 24K. The GMT meter is merely a bar graph - far left means 10% chance of ferrous and far right means 90% chance of ferrous. Somewhere in the middle means 50% chance of ferrous. The Goldmaster 24K puts a blacked out block at the top of the screen with similar positioning, but the actual percentage numbers display out as a "target id" number. This is not a target id number as thought of on coin detectors, but instead intended to be a display of the odds that an item is non-ferrous.
White's Goldmaster 24K controls and display screen
If you look at the display above there is a colored bar at the top of the 24K LCD meter - red on left, wide yellow middle, and dark gray on right. The three colors taper one into the other to indicate overlap. The red on the right indicates the probable ferrous range, and dark gray indicates items reading too high to probably be gold, but more likely a copper, brass, or silver item (high conductors) or certain ferrous items that "wrap around" and "read high". These include hardened steel items like large bolts, almost any washers, ax heads, etc. In theory this scale could be used for coin detecting but the coins with few exceptions like a nickel tend to bunch up all on the right. The intent really is to be more of a ferrous/non-ferrous meter but I do think I could make do with this for some general detecting scenarios. In air tests a nickel read 88, zinc penny 95, dime 96, and quarter 97.
The Goldmaster 24K has an Audio Mode button that engages and disengages something analogous to the "Iron Grunt" feature on the GMT. Engaging the Audio Mode replaces the normal VCO type "zippy" audio with a simple high or low beep. Any meter reading below 50 will deliver the low "ferrous" beep and anything 50 or higher a high "non-ferrous" beep. Since the gold probability range runs much lower this is helping the operator concentrate only on the high probability targets - anything with over a 50% chance of being non-ferrous. This "over 50% equals non-ferrous" audio mode could be useful for direct hunting in some situations. However, when pushing the detector hard in all metal mode and then switching the Audio ID mode on I found that I would have to reduce sensitivity or encounter quite a few false signals in mineralized ground. That being the case I was more prone to using this as a ferrous check by engaging the button for a quick audio reading, then back again to all metal mode.
The Audio Mode as I described it above acts much like the Iron Grunt feature on the GMT, but on the GMT the ferrous audio alert only kicks in when there is an 85% or greater chance of the item being ferrous. It is not a certainty on how the percentages correlate, but the 24K audio ferrous tone does kick in at readings of 50 and below (greater than 50% chance of being ferrous). Borderline gold targets can read lower than this however, down into the 40s and even lower. A 30% chance of gold is still pretty good odds. So what to do now except read the numbers?
White's has addressed this with another control, the Iron Cancel button. Engaging Iron Cancel activates an adjustable iron rejection setting. The default is for anything reading 15 or lower to simply not beep. This corresponds to the solid red area on the bar graph display at the top of the meter. Borderline or mixed content items will break up or give erratic readings. The best part however is that the setting can be adjusted from 0 all the way up to 62. This allows the operator to completely block out a chosen range of low end readings that is either more conservative or more aggressive than the Audio Mode preset. As noted before, the threshold, if any is used, will not blank over rejected items - they are simply ignored.
I noted above that highly conductive items and some steel items can read at the very high end of the scale, typically 95 and above. If the goal really is gold it is very unlikely that readings this high will be gold and so White's also offers the ability to block out this high end range. Tapping the "lock" button while in the ferrous adjustment mode will automatically block all readings of 94 and higher, which is where most iron high end false signals will occur.
Other controls on the Goldmaster 24K - a pinpoint function, frequency shift to help avoid electrical interference or for running two 24Ks close together, a backlight for the meter for low light conditions, and finally, a factory reset.
White's Goldmaster 24K with stock 10" x 5.5" DD coil
Now for the part everyone has been waiting for - how does the Goldmaster 24K at finding gold? When I test nugget detectors I tend to concentrate on smaller gold. First, because it is more plentiful and easier to find in limited time frames for testing purposes. Realistically small gold also challenges the detector the most. A metal detector must be tuned as hot as possible to find very small bits of gold. Yet this also causes problems with mineralized ground and hot rocks. It is not so much the small gold sensitivity that matters but how the metal detector handles the ground while tuned up for tiny gold. This is why air tests are minimally useful for nugget hunters. They can reveal theoretical information about how small or how deep a detector can find gold under perfect conditions. Air tests give no indication however of how the detector will handle bad ground and hot rocks when tuned to the max. A detector can air test extremely well and fail completely in the field. Therefore when you see my metal detector test reports, pay attention to the smallest nuggets I find, not the larger ones.
The 10" DD coil is a good all around nugget hunting coil, with DD coils having the advantage for handling difficult ground. It was the 6.5" round concentric that wowed me however and after I got it on the detector I really did not want to take it off. The 10" DD will be a better choice for really bad ground, but lacks that magic edge on the tiniest bits of gold. I also appreciate that concentric coils are easier to pinpoint with, and generally have better ferrous identification performance compared to DD coils. One nice thing about the 24K being well balanced is the 13.5" x 8" coil is less nose heavy than would be the case for an unbalanced detector. This is the coil to use for covering ground in search of larger gold nuggets.
For medium to milder ground and the smaller gold however I really do like that little concentric. In particular there is a lot of grass growing in some desert areas, and the 24K with 6" coil was perfect for mowing through the grass to keep the coil on the ground. This is another area where an "S" shaft has the advantage. A straight shaft detector wants to roll to the side when forcing the coil against resistance, where a balanced "S" shaft being in line with your arm does not produce that kind of rollover torque.
The 10" x 5.5" DD coil was a little more prone to false signals when bumped hard than the concentric coil, to the point where I could run higher sensitivity with the concentric on this particular ground. The ground in lots of Nevada is rather mild, often with alkali (salt) content, and it may or may not have bad hot rocks. This particular location had two types of hot rocks to deal with. The bottom line is I was able to run the concentric at full sensitivity of 10, and in audio boost 2 (b2) while in all metal mode and SAT set at medium (default). Even with the machine maxed out like this the detector ran well, and as I said before falsed less than the DD coil would if I attempted the same settings.
White's new XGB ground balancing system really does seem to do a good job finding a setting that works well with both hot rocks and the ground by tracking multiple ground balance points. I liked to engage tracking, run over a mix of ground and hot rocks, and then lock the setting. I was scrubbing and pretty much digging everything. The Goldmaster 24K with the little concentric is hot as a pistol and as usual if you give me a hot detector I was able to find some really tiny gold. The eight nuggets below weigh a total of 8.3 grains (not grams - 480 grains per Troy ounce). The largest nugget is 1.8 grains and the smallest are in that under 1/10th gain range. Now, none of these were super deep because you can't find tiny gold super deep, but they were all good zippy targets - and I was not using headphones!
Gold nuggets found by Steve with new White's Goldmaster 24K - smallest under 1/10th grain
The proof is in the pudding and there is no doubt the Goldmaster 24K can find the gold, and some really small gold at that. I am not going to try and convince anyone that there is some kind of magic breakthrough here - at the end of the day the 24K is a hot 48 kHz single frequency metal detector just like the GMT in many regards. Some oldtimers may still prefer the GMT for its threshold being tightly connected to the all metal channel while the threshold connection on the 24K is much weaker. Although the Goldmaster 24K can be run hot and noisy, all it's design features point to a detector that is intended to be set up as quiet as possible, and this may even mean running without a threshold. I did not see any evidence that this would really hurt the performance at all. This kind of quiet hunting tends to appeal more to people new to nugget detecting, especially those who cross over from coin detecting. Add this to the lighter weight and lower cost package and White's has done a great job producing an alternative to the admittedly long in the tooth GMT.
White's Goldmaster 24K Data & User Reviews
White's Goldmaster 24K Quick Start Guide
White's Goldmaster 24K Advanced User Guide
White's Goldmaster 24K & GMT Compared
Little gold nugget on coil fresh out of the ground