Equinox Ferrous / Iron / Steel Responses

[Daniel Tn]

My experience is that by raising iron bias, you lose quite a bit of the "tells" that the steel and alloy metals give.  Especially the newer beer bottle caps.  I don't ever dig them unless I swap to the Multi Kruzer and then I have a tough time with them. I know they are obviously already there but when I've got the Nox in my hands, I just don't dig them. To my ear they are easy to figure out. I've not figured out any "tells" with the Kruzer as of yet.  Same with the flat iron.  I'm just not digging any with the Nox.  

 

 

[Steve Herschbach]

All I can say Daniel is I agree with you and GB_Amateur as regards ferrous discrimination and the Equinox. It does not trouble me any more than most detectors and far less than some.

Tin, Bolts, Washers, And Other Ferrous Items That Read As Non-Ferrous

[Sinclair]

5 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

In other words, I think the Bias adjusts the "tipping point" between these mixed result items and whether they "lean" more ferrous or more non-ferrous. My setting of zero means I should be digging more ferrous, not less. With the hopes of not missing an item forced to read ferrous when it is not.

That's exactly how I understood the whole topic. I'll have to play with those settings a lot more in the next season. Recovery Speed settings are VERY important in this context, too! In addition, the impact of those settings will probably be far more prominent / audible  in 2 or 5 tone mode.

 

 

[dewcon4414]

Daniel..... i think ML changed wrap around.   Iron on many of the machines i used with high sensitivity would come in in the high digits...... now it seems to want to move into the second bin.   I also get that single digit on targets that are deep that arent flat.

IB is interesting if you watched that one video where BBS was like using 7 IB.  Its almost like turning the sensitivity down when running a hot coil on a target.   Those newer bottle caps..... problems like corona and bud light with some copper in them.

[EL NINO77]

The Iron Bias setting also influences: 1.Of the detector frequency used, or the multifactor program weights, 2. the set recovery speed ...,. 3 Detector Discrimination Used. and also 4.
  detector sensitivity adjustment ... Now you can select -A: Do you want to increase the separation and unmasking of the detector in the iron? .. or B-do you want to discern iron-plated bottle cap caps? ... If you want to maximize the separation-A give the frequency, the multifrequency program type Park 2, the high recovery speed, the  less or no dyscrimination, and  less the sensitivity of the detector ... If you want to determine what is a ferrous waste- B, use a low frequency, a low power, low-frequency Beach 2 program to scale!, increase the iron bias to the maximum !,recovery speed high 7-8-!-its less sensible for, tini,or plated metal.. , increase the discrimination setting- !, and decrease the sensitivity...
 

[Cal_Cobra]

On 9/23/2018 at 6:23 PM, Daniel Tn said:

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding of what the Iron Bias filter setting does vs what people think it does.  I think that is culprit in some people's problem with the iron, bottle caps, etc.

Without getting too deep into it, I will say that you gotta understand that not all FERROUS objects are iron.  Steel is not iron and iron is not steel.  A lot of the ferrous objects we call "iron" and lump into the iron category can actually be an alloy made up with non ferrous materials.  The modern crown cap "bottle cap" found on most beer bottles today are basically a steel alloy version of their older counter parts and contain copper, zinc, and I think nickel too.  What does this have to do with Iron Bias?  Well the higher you set the iron bias, the stronger it tends to filter out the ferrous part of the equation...which is great if an item is pure iron.  Bottlecaps and many other objects are not pure iron, so raising the iron bias on those simply removes the ferrous part of the compound but makes the non ferrous alloy part stand out better....right the opposite of what you want to do.  

Therein lies the problem with old rusty tin, be it from cans, or as the pioneers and miners loved to utilize it, for building roofing and siding.  In some ghost towns and other related sites, this stuff is everywhere in a state of decay, and it tends to sound good on a detector, although I've noticed on the Multi Kruzer that it can (not always) have a rough fuzzy sound, even though it TIDs as a higher conductor.   That said, why not just skip all those targets that don't have that pure non-ferrous sound?  Good relics made of multiple metals can also mimic this sound.  I hope the Equinox has the ability to provide audio and TID clues that can help decipher the good from the bad. 

[GB_Amateur]

13 minutes ago, Cal_Cobra said:

....Why not just skip all those targets that don't have that pure non-ferrous sound?

I can give one reason, at least to my ear -- pure non-ferrous sound, in my experience, means a non-ferrous object is either close to the surface or far from ferrous objects.  Iron, being the most common metallic element and being a very useful metal in terms of versatility, particularly strength, has been used for centuries in vast amounts.  Virtually every site where a structure (building, fence, etc.) has been located is inundated with buried iron.

Having said that, it seems that some here have a way of distinguishing between larger iron (which gives both high conductor signals and low conductor hints) and separate high conductor + nearby small iron.  If that can be done then your recommendation can be implemented.  Likely it depends upon the size of the objects and the separation distance, even with a trained ear.

 

[Cal_Cobra]

12 hours ago, dewcon4414 said:

Daniel..... i think ML changed wrap around.   Iron on many of the machines i used with high sensitivity would come in in the high digits...... now it seems to want to move into the second bin.   I also get that single digit on targets that are deep that arent flat.

IB is interesting if you watched that one video where BBS was like using 7 IB.  Its almost like turning the sensitivity down when running a hot coil on a target.   Those newer bottle caps..... problems like corona and bud light with some copper in them.

I've seen iron wrap-around hit high digits on my EQ800.  Matter of fact, at a very old site (for here) I was getting deep bits of iron wire (bailing wire) and some old hand forged nails that were producing a high tone and TID #.   After digging a few of these disappointing finds,  I got a beautiful signal.  well OK, it actually sounded like the deep iron, and it turned out to be an 1838 seated dime! 

[EL NINO77]

I also found some coins in the iron that I had a partial iron signal and ID 16,17 to 21,22 - but I decided to dig it after the first such digged coin -  I'm more careful ....,  I can find me more this signal from the coin ...- I know  definitely need to feel more audio signal Equinox ...
 

[Jackpine]

A lot of very good points in this discussion that I agree with completely. 

A couple quick questions for those that hunt older sites where numerous types and sizes of iron, steel and rusty tin are the masking culprits. 

Is the lack of an overload indicator on the Nox a positive thing for your hunting style?  In other words would it add or detract from your ability to discern co-located non-ferrous in heavily trashed areas? 

Although I like to hear it all to get those tells we talk about I l need to try hunting with the all metal horse shoe button off in these sites if only to satisfy my curiosity about the difference in audio vs making use of the iron volume control.