Will Equinox Pave The Way?

[Cal_Cobra]

26 minutes ago, Jackpine said:

Other than the Equinox there really is nothing new for competition. FTP could have competed with Garret and their AT series but chose not to for whatever reason.  The market for single freq and selectable frequency waterproof machines is saturated now anyway. 

Cranking out a multitude of new 3 frequency machines on a yearly basis is similar in practice to FTP's updating of their older top end machines and we can now get those at some really good prices.

Since the long awaited CZX was a dead end we will just have to wait longer for that great new thing as we have no other choice.  I'm sure the Equinox wasn't hatched in a day either.

That said, I agree it would be nice to get a tid bit of info from them.

?

 

Nok/Mak released the Impact in 2017, then the waterproof Multi Kruzer earlier this year,  and now the Anfibio which basically equates to a waterproof Impact with some improvements.  So that's only two years, and they said going forward, after the Anfibio they will no longer be releasing selectable frequency machines, they will be SMF detectors.  Can't really compare ten years of F75 churn to two years of Nok/Mak IMO.  

We'll see what happens with FTP, I certainly haven't counted them out yet....White's and Garrett...now that's a different story.

[Jackpine]

An SMF from Notka/Makro would be welcome But for someone just putting their toe into the waters  it might be a loong wait.

[Geotech]

There is much I wish I could say but can't. It is personally frustrating for me that things have gone the way they've gone, but I ain't the decider. However, I am working on things I think the serious hunters will like, but I have no idea on when they'll be ready for prime time.

 

[EL NINO77]

Carl, .. I read, ...so is the development of a multi-project ...We believe that a time frame is needed for such a product development...

[Cal_Cobra]

16 hours ago, Alluminati said:

I guess it's possible that Fisher has just grown too big to worry specifically about metal detectorists, they seem to be in the business of selling electronics to retailers, which is kinda a different thing if you know what I mean. Would fisher even do better as a company if they did have an Equinox beater? Its a weird way to think of it, but accounting makes for some weird decisions from our point of view I suppose.

Actually I think you hit the nail on the head, profit over passion.  Why make something new and innovative when you can sell truckloads of bounty hunters to the mass consumer market. 

[Steve Herschbach]

The unfortunate fact is the market for high end coin detectors is not where the bucks are. Companies are in business to make money and have to do what it takes to keep the lights on. And that often means catering to the mass market.

On the other hand people like me not only buy more expensive detectors - we buy lots of them. It is not unusual for serious detectorists to get new detectors every year of two. So while we are smaller in numbers we do have some influence.

Long story short to get my interest in the future a metal detector must be more than another single frequency model. I purposefully took on the White’s Goldmaster 24K as a fitting end to my review of basic single frequency detectors. They long ago hit a wall for performance, and testing new ones.... well frankly it has gotten boring. The most a new single frequency model can do is match the best of the best that have already been made. They might be lighter or less expensive but what is not happening is anything real when it comes to more depth or better discrimination.

It does help to narrow ones interests, and ignoring single frequency going forward allows me to focus on what I am still really interested in - new pulse induction and multifrequency models. I am still interested in the latest as regards selectable frequency detectors but even that area of interest is rapidly filling out. My main disappointment in the Multi Kruzer is they broke the higher frequency Gold Kruzer out as a separate product. I wish the Multi Kruzer or Anfibio Multi took the top 19/20 kHz frequency just one notch higher. Something like 5, 15, and 30 kHz would suit me better, more like Deus is doing with the new X35 coils. Those appear to have an excellent balance between high and low frequency.

I believe any new model gets judged directly against the Equinox 600 and 800 as new benchmarks for features at a given price. That makes for a tough go for anyone looking to offer new detectors in that $600 - $900 range.

The nice thing is that by turning a blind eye to single frequency the list of known upcoming detectors that interest me at all is very short. And being interested only means that, not that I have to have one. The upcoming Fisher Manta has my interest less for what the first generation model will do but where it might lead - hopefully to a prospecting model some day after the beach version is dialed in.

And we know Nokta / Makro is working on both pulse induction and simultaneous multifrequency.

And that’s it for me. I gave up pestering Garrett for a dry land ATX. No sign of multifrequency from Garrett. I would like to see Whites stuff the V3I in the MX Sport housing but other than that it seems the options on the horizon are limited.

All in good fun anyway. The fact is if nobody ever makes another new detector model I am pretty well set. Between the GPZ 7000, Equinox 800, and V3I with Bigfoot coil there is not much I can’t do.

[Cal_Cobra]

Good post Steve, I pretty much agree with everything your saying.  I think Nokta/Makro dropped the ball by creating a Gold Kruzer, and not simply incorporating the higher frequency into the Multi Kruzer, but you know it's a damed if you do, damed if you don't scenario.  Although the forte of the Equinox is it's SMF Multi-IQ technology, the Equinox 800 has the capability to run as a single frequency detector up to 40 kHz, that's impressive, and offers a lot of options for those needing them.  You may not always use them, but their nice to have in those cornerstone cases when SMF may not be the best option.   

Steve I feel the same as you, I really don't need another detector, with the Multi Kruzer and all the coils I have for it, and the EQ800, they'll cover anything that I would ever detect, from casual prospecting, salt water beach hunting, deep silver coin hunting and hard core relic hunting.  I still have a Racer 2 with a ton of coils, as well as a F75 LTD2 (admittedly collecting dust), and a Euro Tek Pro for the wifey. Still, as a tech nerd working in Silicon Valley, I enjoy seeing companies innovate, and new technology that could potentially be a game changer putting more keepers into my finds pouch is what I'm hoping will come (both the Makro Racers/Impact/MK and EQ800 have done that). 

[flakmagnet]

I consider myself unbelievably fortunate to own two detectors that give me the ability to detect almost anywhere with success. (GPZ7000 and EQ800) Now to find the time.

[LowTide]

7 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I would like to see Whites stuff the V3I in the MX Sport housing but other than that it seems the options on the horizon are limited.

Of all of the companies that could bring a Nox competitor to market Whites to me would be the horse out in front.   They have all of the pieces parts, but do they have the desire and the necessary engineering horsepower to make it happen?  Another factor for them would be profitability against a Nox 600 which is going to trend towards a sub $600 street price.

I know a lot of people are high Nok/Mak because "we finally have a company that will listen to us and do rapid development".  But if I were an investor in that company I would be furious with them.  And that is because of their product management strategy which is burning development cash.  Plus creating future obligations for each product that they release and will have to support looking forward. 

One of the unintended consequences of their "new models" release schedule is the killing of the used market for their own detectors.   The Nox has/had already disrupted values in the used market, so why use a product release/positioning strategy to aid Minelab in damaging your cachet?

Nonetheless I do understand that they are in a transitional stage of trying to combine two companies, with the added challenge of it being a family run enterprise.  Anyone who has worked for a family run business whether it is a restaurant, construction company, or engineering firm will appreciate the challenges one can face in those situations.

 

[Cal_Cobra]

On 10/3/2018 at 6:03 PM, LowTide said:

Of all of the companies that could bring a Nox competitor to market Whites to me would be the horse out in front.   They have all of the pieces parts, but do they have the desire and the necessary engineering horsepower to make it happen?  Another factor for them would be profitability against a Nox 600 which is going to trend towards a sub $600 street price.

I know a lot of people are high Nok/Mak because "we finally have a company that will listen to us and do rapid development".  But if I were an investor in that company I would be furious with them.  And that is because of their product management strategy which is burning development cash.  Plus creating future obligations for each product that they release and will have to support looking forward. 

One of the unintended consequences of their "new models" release schedule is the killing of the used market for their own detectors.   The Nox has/had already disrupted values in the used market, so why use a product release/positioning strategy to aid Minelab in damaging your cachet?

Nonetheless I do understand that they are in a transitional stage of trying to combine two companies, with the added challenge of it being a family run enterprise.  Anyone who has worked for a family run business whether it is a restaurant, construction company, or engineering firm will appreciate the challenges one can face in those situations.

 

There's one problem with this train of thought, the guy that designed the V3i no longer works there.  The V3i code is complex and massive in size compared to all of their other detectors.  IMO the big question is, do they currently have the engineering talent/resources to even do such a project?  

Steve will likely know, as I don't really find White's to be interesting enough to follow that deeply, but after their latest product refresh cycle, it looks like they've abandoned SMF machines in favor of the AT market. 

I understand your thinking about Nokta/Makro, and agree to an extent.  I think now that their combined, we'll see this oddball trend where a new product would come out under the Nokta name, and then the following year an updated version would come out under the Makro name disappear.  From purely an engineering perspective, it kind of made sense I suppose, but the Nokta machine were more akin to a 1.0 beta mule platform, with the Makro machines being the 2.0 refined, general deployment platform.   

Interesting times ahead, and IMO we already have some great machines to use now from a variety of vendors while we watch how things shake out in the detector world.