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steveg

Does Anyone Observe That Unmasking Is Easier With The New Eqx Software Build?

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Hi all!

I have a site where -- for some reason -- I dig a TON of moderate-depth wheat cents, but very little silver.  It's a small strip of grass, next to where a pool used to be located, on a former country club site.

ANYWAY, I went through there many times with my old Explorer, and pretty well "cleaned it out," as far as the Explorer's capability goes.  The coins are intermingled with quite a bit of iron/nails, and so many are masked by the iron.   But given that caveat, there was not much else there, once I "finished," that the Explorer was able to "clue me in on," in terms of there being any coins left.

Well, when I got the Equinox, I thought it would be a great "test site."  I went through that small strip of grass with the 11" coil, as a "test," to see how well the Equinox's improved ability to work in iron (compared to my Explorer) would actually show itself "in the field."  Well, it did not disappoint.  I believe I turned up about a dozen wheats and a Rosie, all from a this small grassy area that I'd hit MULTIPLE times with the Explorer and various coils, and all of the coins under, or very near, iron.  I had nails in just about every hole -- which explains why the Explorer missed these coins.

Having said that, I did have to "work" each one of those targets with the Equinox pretty carefully, listening very closely to hear the chirps of high-tone mixed in with the iron tones, and then to try and figure out which of those high tones were just "falses," and which ones were hints of a coin.  Still, though, like I said, the Equinox enabled me to pull roughly a dozen coins out of a small area that -- after many trips with the Explorer -- would have suggested a conclusion that the site was about "played out."  NOT SO, though, for the Equinox!  This was a great testimonial to the ability of the EQX, from my perspective. 

I had not hunted the site again, since.

So, fast forward to few nights ago.  I headed back to this same spot, still with the 11" coil, but this time with the updated software version.  In a very short hunt, over this same, small grassy area, I recovered three more wheats, and several '60s Memorial pennies, all of which were "missed" when I hunted it with the Equinox before.  While it's not surprising that I "missed" several coins the last time, as it was only one hunt with the EQX, what WAS surprising is that several of the ones I dug this time were OBVIOUS -- yes, they were still within iron, but I was able to get the machine to really "lock on" to the high tone, from several angles, that left almost NO DOUBT that there was a coin down there, in the nails.  The targets were so "easy" to pick out from the iron, that I'm surprised I missed them last time.  Now -- I'm not sure if the fact that it was "easier" to hear these particular coins in the nails (coins that literally stood out to my ears like a "sore thumb" amongst the iron tones), was simply due to several more months of experience on the machine since the last time I hunted this site, OR whether that new software build is allowing the machine to "unmask" in iron even better than it did before.

Any thoughts from anyone?  Has anyone else perhaps noticed the new software build offering better ability to "unmask?"  (Or, was what I experienced more likely to be simply additional experience on the machine?)  It was a pretty stark, obvious observation, and the several months that have elapsed between these two hunts (with two different versions of software) offer a unique scenario to "analyze..."  Was it "more experience," or was it assistance offered by the new software?

Steve 

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Steve I too have noticed an even better ability for the Nox to lock on to coins trying to be masked by junk since the update, but have been afraid to mention it just in case it was a placebo affect or conformation bias.

My very last hunt, with new update, I pulled 10 old coins, a token and a couple pieces of junk jewelry out of a very small area that my friend and I have hunted with the CTX, E-Trac, V3i and my Equinox before the update..

We covered this little hill on multiple occasions over the last couple years.. If I had found one or two coins in this little spot I would have been happy.

These signals were all tricky but once the signal was isolated, I had high confidence that I was digging a coin.. Most of the signals were one way but solid. Nail falsing seems to be improved with the new update too.  A couple of the coins were not only deep but on edge. 

Once you isolate a one way signal, a coin will usually stay on a tight ID range, for example mid 20s. One way nail falsing will be all over the place bouncing from mid teens to mid 30s.  We all need to go back over these previously good locations from multiple angles to try and find these one way hits.. I use the pinpoint function quite heavily for isolation and shaping the targets.

Good to hear I’m not the only one have good success with the update.

Bryan

 

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I've had the same epiphany after the update and made a comment to the effect the other day. Whether it's the detector, me or a combination of both it's rather nice.

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Cabin Fever and Jackpine --

Thank you both for the thoughts.  This confirms my experience the other night (sorry I missed your comments from the other day, Jackpine).  

Cabin Fever, you said this...

"These signals were all tricky but once the signal was isolated, I had high confidence that I was digging a coin."

That's about a perfect description of what I was experiencing.  They were tough/tricky signals, at first, when they were initially heard, but once I'd stop and try and isolate what I was hearing, rotating around the target, I was able to find an angle or angles where I could isolate a good, solid, "pure" coin signal that left little doubt.  

Very interesting to hear that both of you noted something similar to what I thought I was experiencing; I'm not sure what they changed that would account for this, but it seems I'm not the only one to perhaps notice something...

Steve

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I just read on another website about all the problems guys were having with the update. I tried if for the 1st time today and right now I have mixed feelings about it. I will give it a few more days before I decide

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TNSS or someone will have to do some unmasking tests.  For me, I think it's been about the same with the old vs new firmware versions (hunting coins), but so many variables it's hard to tell.  I have sometimes thought pennies (both new and old) rang in a little lower on the TID scale.

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I think the angle at which the coil meets the target is very important - more important, than any software change made so far.

You'll never hunt the same area exactly the same way each and every time, that's why you'll always find something you've missed...

Check some coins 90° to the middle of the DD coil + on edge for example .. our € coins fall into the solid iron range.. no chips and chirps. Chances may be small to hit a coin buried like that, but there are chances.. :happy:

Imho only a side by side test could reveal, if the observations are true. Othervise there are too many variables and subjective feelings involved..

 

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Sinclair, 

As a scientist, I totally agree -- my question was full of variables and subjective feelings.

As much as we'd like otherwise, it's very difficult to set up valid scientific experiments that fully replicate what we experience "in the ground."  WAY too many variables.  

And I agree with you that the "angle of approach" to a coin -- the angle of the coin in the ground combined with the angular direction that the coil encounters that coin -- makes a huge difference.  

I'm not surprised that coins are missed, due to the all the variables.  What I was surprised about is how "easy" it was to isolate and "lock on" to the coins I mentioned, within the surrounding iron.  I am pretty sure that I didn't "miss" those coins before; it's more likely that I "heard" the target last time, but when interrogating the chirps I heard amongst the iron, I did not hear anything to "convince" me it was something more than just high-tone chirps generated by the nails.  In other words, the presence of the coin never became "clear" to me the first time.  This time, though, there was little doubt.  That's the subtle little difference I'm referring to.  None of the coins I dug, could I have imagined me "passing on" previously, if they sounded as "good" as they did the other night.  

Could I have simply "missed" those targets last time -- never passed the coil over them?  It's possible, though doubtful that I entirely missed ALL of them.  It's a very small patch of grass.  Could ground conditions have been different?  Sure.  Could EMI have been less this time?  Sure.  Lots of variables, you are correct.  But I simply wondered if anyone else felt -- subjectively -- that their ability to "unmask" coins in iron has been improved, after the new software build.  To me, there CAN be some value in "subjective" observations.  Many must be taken with a "grain of salt," but I'm still interested to hear thoughts...

Steve 

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On 11/1/2018 at 6:44 AM, Sinclair said:

I think the angle at which the coil meets the target is very important - more important, than any software change made so far.

You'll never hunt the same area exactly the same way each and every time, that's why you'll always find something you've missed...

Check some coins 90° to the middle of the DD coil + on edge for example .. our € coins fall into the solid iron range.. no chips and chirps. Chances may be small to hit a coin buried like that, but there are chances.. :happy:

Imho only a side by side test could reveal, if the observations are true. Othervise there are too many variables and subjective feelings involved..

 

I agree, those slight variations in swing on fringe targets, as well as your attitude. Some days my coffee tastes better then others.

It will be something to test this winter when everyone gets cabin fever (I think it's setting in already ? ), it will be interesting to see what the tangible differences between firmware variations. I'm all for them releasing updates as long as they keep the old ones available. For example, when they "fixed" that big silver on edge thing, did we loose something else? That's why lots want the old firmware available should they dumb the machine down for mass audiences.

Success is more overall an overall aggregate, so I haven't spent enough time with either firmware to notice any tangible differences myself, but I'm sure there are differences.

It could also just be the collective group of Equinox users sort of getting in sync with their machines around the same time, as most have less then one season on the machine. with a new FBS style machine this is when things usually get exciting, once you start to recognize those deep old targets and can run the machine a little hotter, noisier. Etrac users know what I mean, a 5" penny is 12-42 but a 10" silver dime is not 12-42. ?

 

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One of the possibilities of comparing the current and the new firmware is to locate 10-20 suspected signals in the terrain, and then verify them on another firmware ... at the same time...

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