Hats Off To Minelab On Nox800 Headphones

[Cal_Cobra]

1 hour ago, BeachHunter said:

I just checked my Apple Watch and it does have the new Walkie-Talkie App. Awesome!

Thanks guys for the info.

Looks like a cool feature, but has a ton of limitations.  For example, must be on a cellular network (perhaps WiFi networks too), and everyone has to have an iWatch:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-watchs-walkie-talkie-is-practically-useless/

For me and my friend, when we're in remote areas with no cell reception it wouldn't work,  and more importantly he's an android user, and it only works from iWatch to iWatch.

I ordered that walkie talkie Bluetooth adapter under the premise that it will work with my Minelab BT headphones (vendor is saying it will pair with any BT device).   Should be an interesting test, and I love being wireless.  Once you go wireless, you don't want to go back to cables!

[NCtoad]

I'm another fan of the stock headphones.  They've held up well and the case is really nice and protects them  while traveling to the hunting site. 

[Dubious]

Well, for anyone who isn't a fan of the 800's stock headphones, or who like me has the 600 and a choice, I like my Avantree Audition Pro low latency headphones.  Better yet are my Sennheiser CX 6.00 low latency earbuds, which don't interfere with my hat.

 

[Chase Goldman]

On 11/7/2018 at 4:32 PM, Cal_Cobra said:

Looks like a cool feature, but has a ton of limitations.  For example, must be on a cellular network (perhaps WiFi networks too), and everyone has to have an iWatch:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-watchs-walkie-talkie-is-practically-useless/

For me and my friend, when we're in remote areas with no cell reception it wouldn't work,  and more importantly he's an android user, and it only works from iWatch to iWatch.

I ordered that walkie talkie Bluetooth adapter under the premise that it will work with my Minelab BT headphones (vendor is saying it will pair with any BT device).   Should be an interesting test, and I love being wireless.  Once you go wireless, you don't want to go back to cables!

So you have a pair of walkie talkies/FRS radios that are compatible with this BT receiver/transmitter gizmo you previously mentioned as this in itself is not a standalone walkie talkie?  Care to mention the specific model, because the Baofung ht mentioned in the Amz listing of the gizmo requires an amateur radio license to be legal.  Would be convenient to use with a compatible FRS/GMRS ht when out of cellular range,  I suppose.  But since I wouldn't be continuously talking on the radio, just having a wired speaker/mike clipped to my shirt/jacket would probably work just as well as this thing, with less claptrap (additional batteries to be charged for the receiver/transmitter/ptt unit etc.).  Interesting gadget, nevertheless.  Let us know how you like it after you put it through its paces in the field, CC.  Thanks.

On 11/8/2018 at 7:49 PM, Dubious said:

Well, for anyone who isn't a fan of the 800's stock headphones, or who like me has the 600 and a choice, I like my Avantree Audition Pro low latency headphones.  Better yet are my Sennheiser CX 6.00 low latency earbuds, which don't interfere with my hat.

 

While I applaud the ML designers on the multitude of built-in wired and wireless options in the Equinox itself, I, like Dubious, do not count myself among those overly enamored of the ML BT headset (or more accurately, the mass produced clone/knockoff headset that ML chose to stick their logo on) so pardon me if I get real for a minute or two with some constructive, real-world criticism, even though I am an unabashed lifetime member of the Equinox fan club.  Lol.

It works, true, with good, low-latency audio, ok comfort, and decent battery life as others have said, and I like that you can use it in wired mode should the battery die in the field, but it also has several drawbacks for in-the-field use including: 

 - No IP rating for dust and weather/moisture resistance.  These will last about as long as the Wicked Witch of the West if you are caught out in a drenching downpour without a means to quickly protect them from the rain drops and forget about chancing it in shallow water hunting (one inadvertent dunk or slip off your head and they are done).   While this is true of many wired detecting headphones, I would think that ML might have gone with a third party model (or even an in-house designed model) that had some moisture resistance (they do exist, but are hard to find - see below), since the Equinox itself is designed to weather the elements.  Granted this might add to the overall cost, but based on where ML has priced the headset as a separately purchased accessory, I think it really could have been done without moving the needle on the Equinox 800 MAP/MSRP.

  - There is practically no tactile feel from the control buttons, even bare-handed (fuggetabouttit with gloves on) and if your hands or gloves have any dirt or mud on them, God forbid that you get debris lodged in the button cavities as this will cause them to cease functioning properly. 

  -The charge port seems a little flimsy too (thin plastic shell) and may not be able to take several years of even non-abusive plugging/unplugging for charging at this high stress point.  Certainly, not as beefy as the Equinox and WM-08 charge ports, though those are proprietary vs. using the industry standard micro USB or USB-C plugs which, itself, is a drawback.

Balky control button and charge port issues have been previously reported by a couple forum members.  Thankfully, ML covers the headset with the same warranty as the detector so you can get it replaced (perhaps repeatedly so, if necessary) within the first three years and if you are beyond the warranty period, you can get the 3rd party clone/knockoff branded version for about 1/3 the price of the identical ML branded accessory.  So while not exactly hassle free in terms of having to ship stuff back, etc.,  ML is standing behind their BT accessory headset, and that is a really good thing, especially in this case, and it can be replaced, relatively inexpensively, out of warranty if you can stomach not having the ML logo on your headset.

As a result of the issues cited above and for warm weather comfort, I chose to go with the relatively more expensive (and slightly more rugged) Audio 66 APTX LL BT Pro back phones, recommended by another forum member, that are IP rated for dust, sweat and moisture resistance (but not immersion proof) so should stand up better to field use and they also boast great comfort, and audio as well as positive control button engagement.  I will save the ML BT headset for occasional cold weather use in those situations where they will be less subject to in-the-field abuse from the elements and my dirty digging gloves.  Perhaps they will outlast the warranty period if I use them in this occasional manner.

When I'm covered head-to-toe in wet, red Virginia clay next week after 6-days of relic hunting, hopefully I will still have a functioning set of ML branded BT headphones at the end of it all (it will likely be a little too cold for my Audio 66 backphones and a perhaps a little too wet for the ML BT headset on some days, so I will likely mostly go with my waterproof wired phones for next week's adventure when I'm using the Equinox instead of the GPX).

In any event, kudos to ML for giving us no less than four built-in audio options with the Equinox 600/800 (speaker/wired/low latency non-proprietary bluetooth/ultra low latency/multi-user wi-stream wireless (WM 08)) which provides amazing audio flexibility that far outstrips just about any other detector out there and should be the audio template for all future ML detectors (i.e., hoping ML does not come out with yet another model-specific, proprietary wireless solution and perhaps more rugged wireless headphones for their next detector model).  This flexibility provides you with the ability to use at least a couple of alternatives to the wireless BT headset should the conditions preclude you from using the headset (e.g., rain) or if they do break.  It is because of this overall audio design flexibility provided by ML with the Equinox that I have basically not bothered mentioning the admittedly relatively minor flaws of the provided BT headset (until now) and is also probably why ML was willing to cut a few minor corners in their BT headset choice, which mostly gets the job done.

[Alluminati]

I don't get too worked up about the Bluetooth headphones so much because the 800 has the WM-08 module which address most concerns with the Bluetooth headphones, with the caveat of having to use a short length of wire between the headphones and the module.

I like Bluetooth headphones enough, don't get me wrong, they are comfortable albeit obviously warm and are truly wireless. They are a very nice backup to have.

Essentially from a performance point of view, any Bluetooth headphone including the Minelab Bluetooth headphones are the third choice behind the WM-08 module and the wired headphones.

If you think about it the WM-08 module is very clever. Its faster then Bluetooth and in reality it's better for the user to select their actual headphones based on conditions and budget. Finding AptX headphones is hard enough, then you add in all the other subjective requirements that go along with headphones. The WM-08 is water resitant I think, you can put it in your pocket or a baggie easily. It has a big power button and no redundant volume controls.

Right now I prefer the short length of wire to the module and a cheap set of lightweight behind the neck headphones for the warmer weather. That being said, I have been using the Bluetooth headphones in the water this fall because they are warm, comfortable and are what I consider a freebie.

Since Minelab has their own faster tech with the WM-08 module, maybe one day we will see a new pair of headphones that are not Bluetooth? Perhaps there is a patent issue with Deus stopping them from making them at this time, hence splitting up the electronics separately from the speakers, I'm just speculating of course. 

I'm working on a design of full size headphones this winter that will accept the WM-08 module.

 

[Chase Goldman]

At about 20 ms the WM08 indeed does have less latency/delay than the APTX LL at about 30 ms, but am hard pressed to be able actually perceive the difference between the two vs. even wired headphones.  But APTX and non-APTX BT headphones are really not useable for detecting because of the 100 to 200+ ms delay.  I like the WM08 for the ability to use any wired detecting headset but wish it used a 1/4" plug so an adapter wouldn't be necessary.  

[Alluminati]

I think I can sometimes notice the 40ms delay with the Minelab headphones, but they are usable. It's not something I notice constantly, just the odd time a deeper tricky target in the water might cause me to slow down my "X"ing a touch.  It could just be placebo, I don't know.

I guess if we were to compare apples to apples, theoretically speaking,  the WM-08 module is going to report a hit twice as fast as the big headphones, regardless of swing speed. Or another way, the big headphones will let the coil travel twice as far as the WM-08 before it reports a hit, for a given swing speed. (20ms vs 40ms stated in the manual.)

We do know that "regular" non AptX Bluetooth with their 100ms response is too slow, so I don't think we have reached diminishing returns with 40ms, 20ms sounds better, no pun intended.

I understand why some North Americans want to use a 1/4" jack, but it doesn't make sense for the rest. I have never fallen for the headphone hype, it's not that I don't think that good headphones can be made, it's that just because lawnmower headphones can be fitted with a 1/4" phone jack doesn't make them better.

Noise Isolation can be nice, but so is not sweating your face off. I don't believe anyone who says they can only find targets with certain headphones. That would require a very certain situation and non of the claimants would even know the db of the drivers in their cans. In other words BS.

Noise doesn't bother me, or at least it doesn't effect my detecting that much. I would not like detecting next to a highway or around screaming kids, but I do quite often listen to Stern while detecting and the wind is often howling on the water. I don't think you are going to hear anything past your sensitivity and threshold setting anyway.

I believe the "Special" headphones are best for the gold prospecting guys with analog machines were a slightly more efficient pair could be a tangible advantage, but not for a regular coin/jewellery/relic hunter. We have a volume control that works well enough.

It's not worth clinging to that 1/4" jack. Headphones are almost semi-disposable IMO, some last longer then others, but they all develop issues if used with any regularity. A big plus for the module.

Headphones are mostly fluff, price has little to do with how long headphones will last, or how they subjectively sound. Sure a $800 set of headphones should sound a little better then a $80 dollar pair, but not 10 times better. $80 headphones do not sound 10 times better then $8 headphones. You see where this is going?

A metal detector does not produce extreme 20Hz bass, or any bass really, nor does it produce 20,000Hz of treble. The relaxes the need for any kind of a premium driver. Its really down to do you like how this particular headphones colours the sound over another pair.
As we get older we lose some high frequency hearing, so some might prefer the leaner sound of say a Deus WS4 headphone vs the bigger, bassier over the ear WS5 headphones. These quite possibly use the same speaker, just one has an larger rear chamber while the other is almost an open air design.

If I might make a suggestion, just have a 1/8" jack wired into your favorite pair of cans. You can just cut the wire off of a cheap donor pair and solder it direct to the headphones. If you still need 1/4" at times, a 1/8" to 1/4" adapter is quite small in comparison to the 1/4" to 1/8" adapter you are using now.

I often modify headphones to make the wire shorter. (I use them a lot at work) I make the wire just long enough to reach the audio device, that way I don't have to roll up and excess wire. I just need enough wire to reach the bottom of my pocket with a bit of slack for head movement without tugging on the wire. Same thing with the WM-08 module. I just tuck the wire down my shirt, it's just long enough to reach the module and that is it. I feel just as wireless this was as I do with the big headphones, the compromise is I have to accommodate the WM-08 in a pocket or on a belt. Next year I will reconfigure my treasure pouch to have a spot to hole the WM-08 on the right side.

[Cal_Cobra]

On 11/10/2018 at 12:12 AM, Chase Goldman said:

So you have a pair of walkie talkies/FRS radios that are compatible with this BT receiver/transmitter gizmo you previously mentioned as this in itself is not a standalone walkie talkie?  Care to mention the specific model, because the Baofung ht mentioned in the Amz listing of the gizmo requires an amateur radio license to be legal.  Would be convenient to use with a compatible FRS/GMRS ht when out of cellular range,  I suppose.  But since I wouldn't be continuously talking on the radio, just having a wired speaker/mike clipped to my shirt/jacket would probably work just as well as this thing, with less claptrap (additional batteries to be charged for the receiver/transmitter/ptt unit etc.).  Interesting gadget, nevertheless.  Let us know how you like it after you put it through its paces in the field, CC.  Thanks.

 

I ordered the set shown below. It uses the K1 connector that Kenwood, Baofeng and others use.  It's a common connector, but Moto radios use the M1 connector which is slightly different, so check your FRS/GMRS HT radio specs to be sure (I believe they also make them for M1 connectors).  BTW the Baofengs are great, because the set I have is a SDR, Software Defined Radio.  I have a USB  cable from the radio to my PC, and software that can essentially program these radios to use any licensed or non-licensed public band I want.  Pretty cool feature IMO.

The Plantronics knock-off earpiece will stay put in the box, but the K1 Bt transceiver attaches to compatible 2-way radios of your choice ( Kenwood / Baofeng / TYT / Wouxan, any HT with K1 type Mic/PTT 3.5/2.5mm jacks) .  After a bit of trial and error, I was able to pair the K1 compatible Bt transceiver with the Minelab ML80 headphones and my Baofeng. 

They also include the little PTT button shown at the top right in the photo below, it has a Velcro strap to attach to whatever you want.  This is cool, because I can strap it to my EQ800 pistol grip handle right where Minelab should've located the PP button, and simply push the button while detecting to talk. 

It requires zero additional intervention, no stopping to fiddle with buttons, no wires, and no stopping to get your cell phone out to text, call, etc.  At the end of the day, this means I can dig more targets, and more targets dug = more keepers to go into my finds pouch!  And for those areas without cell reception, presto you have instant communications.  

Although I have everything paired up, I've yet to try it in the field.  I was using the Baofeng wired ear piece/mic that came with the radios, but they use wires about the diameter of human hair, and a modest snag on a bush, or catch on your shovel handle and it breaks. Even the backups I ordered had the same fate, so I wrote them off.  This was the same issue(s) I was encountering with my wired headphones in the past.  Although much beefier then the Chinese 2-way radio headsets, I cannot tell you how many times my Sunray Golds, Killer B's, etc., have failed in the field due to the wiring failures, a faulty plug, or whatever.  And yes they had lifetime warranty's that the repair guy was great to fix, but I cannot tell you how much it sucks to have your headphones break in the field or at that great demo hunt where everyone's digging seateds and your left trying to dig listening to your detector speaker and lots of ambient noise.  Perhaps I'm harder on my headphones than others (although I don't think so), but I think hunting in brush with constant snags simply takes its toll on wires. 

I love being wireless now, and don't ever see myself going back to wired headphones, ever.  My Multi Kruzer and EQ800 are both wireless, and I love it.  It just works, no more tangles, no more field failures, they just work when I need them to. 

Funny side story -  I had my Racer 2 at a really good park scrape a few years ago.  I had my Sunray Golds, and a backup set of Killer B's with me.  The Sunray Golds weren't working so I switched to the Killer B's and wasn't having much better luck.  When I got home, I drug out two more sets of wired headphones and tried them, and darned if they weren't working either, so I (incorrectly) concluded that it was the detector that was broken, after all what are the odds that FOUR sets of wired headphones were broken.   I then tried all four sets of headphones on my F75, yep, you guessed it, same results, so I guess I won the lottery on headphone failures.  It was then and there that I ordered my first set of wireless headphones for my Racer 2, and I've never looked back since ?

 

https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Earpiece-Listed-Walkie-Talkie/dp/B07939RPVK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1541516700&sr=8-3&keywords=walkie+talkie+bluetooth+earpiece+with+mic&dpID=41kDZcKd1oL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

[Cal_Cobra]

On 11/10/2018 at 12:12 AM, Chase Goldman said:

As a result of the issues cited above and for warm weather comfort, I chose to go with the relatively more expensive (and slightly more rugged) Audio 66 APTX LL BT Pro back phones, recommended by another forum member, that are IP rated for dust, sweat and moisture resistance (but not immersion proof) so should stand up better to field use and they also boast great comfort, and audio as well as positive control button engagement.

Got an Amazon link to these, I get nothing when putting in Audio 66 APTX LL BT Pro back headphones ?

[Daniel Tn]

I like mine more for using with my phone than with the detector. They work great for that.  Despite them being low latency, there is a delay in the audio and coil timing.  You will really notice it if you use a pair of wired headphones with the Nox over say a target laying on top of the ground or a marked in ground target.  It's not much, and pending on your plug size you may not even notice it at all. But its there for sure.  I do like some of the features of the wireless phones. They aren't bad at all.  But after getting Tony Eisenhowers waterproof phones...I am going to use them full time with the Nox. On land and in water.  I really like 'em that much.