Is The Day Of A Single Frequency Detector Past ?

[Dubious]

LowTide, as I said, I took the phrase "obsoletes all single-frequency detectors" to be mere advertising puffery, not a statement of fact.  But if you consider it a statement of fact, you can argue that it is true, in at least one sense.  Even if Minelab deceived us about the Equinox using five frequencies simultaneously, it still selects 2 of 5 frequencies depending on the mode, allowing it to do the jobs of several single-frequency machines--all the way from using its lowest frequency to hunt deep silver to using its highest to find small gold.  In that sense, in terms of flexibility it does "obsolete" a machine with only one frequency at its disposal.  Much the same can be said for the Multi Kruzer with its user-selectable frequencies.

[Ridge Runner]

Geotech

 I’ll take your 3 multifrequency detector if you can give me a better than average ID at 6 to 10 inches .I will need the weight off of it because age has caught up with me .

l have no pride! I’ll take the senior discount.haha

 The Best To You Carl !

 Chuck 

[Dubious]

On 11/19/2018 at 7:12 PM, Geotech said:

Building a 5-frequency metal detector would not be difficult, and there are plenty of processors with more than enough horsepower. But the transmit power gets divided amongst each frequency so you lose depth. There are tangible benefits to 2 frequencies. There are additional tangible benefits to 3 frequencies. There are almost no tangible benefits to more than 3 frequencies.

. . . 

Well, then, we need a detector with multiple frequencies, that uses 3 of them at a time, that has modes that can cover everything from deep silver to the smallest gold :)

As for dividing the power, I had (apparently mistakenly) thought that the Equinox overcame the problem by transmitting bursts of sine waves at each frequency, each burst after the other.  That is, five time slices, one for each frequency, so each burst of sine waves could be at full power, with the sequence repeating. But maybe this "sequential" approach wouldn't give the same multi-frequency effect.

[Alluminati]

27 minutes ago, Dubious said:

Well, then, we need a detector with multiple frequencies, that uses 3 of them at a time, that can cover everything from deep silver to the smallest gold ?

As for dividing the power, I had (apparently mistakenly) thought that the Equinox overcame the problem by transmitting bursts of sine waves at each frequency, each burst after the other.  That is, five time slices, one for each frequency, so each burst of sine waves could be at full power, with the sequence repeating. But maybe this "sequential" approach wouldn't give the same multi-frequency effect.

I guess you didn't read the explanation from Minelab linked a few pages back? Still speculating?

5kHz - fundamental.
10kHz - 2nd harmonic
15kHz - 3rd harmonic
20kHz - 4th harmonic
40kHz - 8th harmonic

Those square waves posted by EL NINO a few pages back look like they were made with more then 2 frequencies. They are too flat on top.

 

[Geotech]

56 minutes ago, Dubious said:

As for dividing the power, I had (apparently mistakenly) thought that the Equinox overcame the problem by transmitting bursts of sine waves at each frequency, each burst after the other.  That is, five time slices, one for each frequency, so each burst of sine waves could be at full power, with the sequence repeating. But maybe this "sequential" approach wouldn't give the same multi-frequency effect.

That's how BBS/FBS works. A single 3.125kHz cycle, followed by a burst of (8) 25kHz cycles. Repeat. Equinox does both frequencies at the same time, same as DFX & V3. Either way, you are dividing the TX power amongst frequencies, whether in amplitude or time.

[Alluminati]

11 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Sometimes it's best not to worry about how it works and just be satisfied that it does, I doubt there is another manufacturer of detectors out there that wish they didn't have it in their lineup, it's as simple as that.  Just enjoy the machine and leave the technicalities to Minelab and their competitors to bicker about, not that they currently have a threat from any other manufacturer in my opinion. 

Although perhaps Nokta in a few years might come out fighting.  If it didn't work as well as it does, nobody including the competitors would even care about multi IQ.  I hope other manufacturers prove me wrong and come out with detectors that absolutely blitzes the Minelab lineup.  We as consumers benefit if that happens.  I'm about as far from brand loyal as you can get, if someone makes a better detector within my price range, I'm swinging it.

Their slogan is "We change peoples fortunes", Well their detectors sure change their fortunes with the sales they're getting of their detectors, I am sure the other companies wish they were getting the sales Minelab are, it's not their marketing or gimmick slogans about their technologies doing it, it's the performance of their machines and word of mouth about how well they work.  I won't pretend to understand how any detector works, I just know the ones that work best for me.

Just my humble uneducated opinion, take it for what it's worth....

As a final note, I'd rather the next greatest machine come from anyone else other than Minelab, we need the competition.  So I'm rooting for Fisher, Teknetics, Nokta... anyone!

Sometimes we just want to discuss metal detectors, the interesting parts.

Why does everyone bring up Nokta? They aren't going to do, I hate to say it but neither is White's or Fisher, just based on probability. This has been going on now for close to 30 years. Minelab has had the best discrimination technology this whole time, since 1991.
Maybe some patents will expire, maybe the best chance is new tech, all the while the gears are still turning at Minelab.

Tesoro will have a mulit-freq out before White's or Fisher or Nokta. It will have to be more then a label, the proof is in the finds.

To be fair, it was XP Deus that obsoleted all other single freq detectors and made a nice compliment to a FBS/BBS. Now with the Equinox and it's Deus like adjust ability,  it pretty much covers both roles.

I can only speak for myself, but I didn't start buying Minelabs based off of marketing, I buy them based off results in the types of conditions I detect. 
At the time, I noticed most the best finds were being made by Explorers. 

[Dubious]

Alluminati, ok, I missed that--more shades of FBS--although it is hard to see how unamplified harmonics could be enough here.  As for the waveforms, I think we're both going to have to look for Geotech's screen shots. I'm not an engineer, but I think he's right that you can't voltage couple the signal.

[Alluminati]

1 minute ago, Dubious said:

Alluminati, ok, I missed that--more shades of FBS--although it is hard to see how unamplified harmonics could be enough here.  As for the waveforms, I think we're both going to have to look for Geotech's screen shots. I'm not an engineer, but I think he's right that you can't voltage couple the signal.

I didn't realize those threads are on his site, I was looking here for them the other night.

I'll have a look there tomorrow.

[Dubious]

45 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Sometimes it's best not to worry about how it works and just be satisfied that it does, I doubt there is another manufacturer of detectors out there that wish they didn't have it in their lineup, it's as simple as that.  Just enjoy the machine and leave the technicalities to Minelab and their competitors to bicker about, not that they currently have a threat from any other manufacturer in my opinion. 

. . . 

Oh, I agree; the Nox works just as well as it did and I will enjoy it just as much, although I am irritated that Minelab misled us on the technology.  But it is fun to speculate about some of the technicalities and to hear what others (who often know more than I do) have to say.

As for the competition, though, is the Nox really selling that much better than other detectors in its price range?  A lot of people really seem to like the Multi Kruzer, for instance, and the other manufacturers also have popular mid-priced machines.  Also, many probably buy the Nox because it is wireless and waterproof in a svelte package.  Multi-frequency machines probably are the future of VLF, but we're not entirely there, yet--not even as much as I had earlier thought with the Nox :) 

[EL NINO77]

16 hours ago, Dubious said:

Well, then, we need a detector with multiple frequencies, that uses 3 of them at a time, that can cover everything from deep silver to the smallest gold :)

As for dividing the power, I had (apparently mistakenly) thought that the Equinox overcame the problem by transmitting bursts of sine waves at each frequency, each burst after the other.  That is, five time slices, one for each frequency, so each burst of sine waves could be at full power, with the sequence repeating. But maybe this "sequential" approach wouldn't give the same multi-frequency effect.

So another development will be the dual "Core" multifrequency metal detector?