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Is The Day Of A Single Frequency Detector Past ?


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8 hours ago, EL NINO77 said:

So another development will be the dual multifrequency metal detector?

I think the Equinox is the dual multifrequency metal detector.  It has 5 available frequencies, and apparently transmits in 2 of them at a time, determined by the mode selected.  If you meant hybrid--multifrequency VLF together with PI or something else--well, anything is possible and there are rumors of things coming, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting.

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11 hours ago, phrunt said:

I would say the Nox is selling VERY well... this is Codan (Minelab's) share price, note the massive rise from January/February when the Nox came out.  It can't be attributed to anything other than the Nox, they haven't released anything else new and nothing else changed.

Codan.thumb.jpg.c080bf9495c41b0f6281c0d97cc12c37.jpg

The dip there in November was pretty much ASX (Australian share market) wide.  Anyone who had faith in the Equinox and was investing in shares in Minelab did very well out of the release of the Equinox.

Quite a run up, all right.  But the gold machines (and whatever is happening in the gold fields) probably also had something to do with it, as a lot of Minelab's profit lies there.  Although I might prefer it to be an American company, I have to give Minelab credit for pushing the envelope with its VLF/PI machines, even though some models (those lacking real competition) appear outrageously overpriced.

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Regards Dual Core.......Did you know that the Fisher Goldbug Pro/F19/G2/G2+ has two (2) processors?    There is so much going on in the background that we as users never see.

HH
Mike

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  • 2 weeks later...

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss First Texas with Carl and Dave Johnson et. al. On board. Carl did help bring the V3i, a 3 frequency machine, to market, and while I do not find it to be as stable across multiple environments as my Equinox, it is still my go to for most inland hunting. There are tasks the V3i is better at too. It is the best discriminator I've ever used in mild to moderate soil because of its tools and it's 3 frequencies. I find it's VDI to be unusually accurate. Of course I've dedicated a lot of time to that machine, but it's been worth it. And that 13" ultimate Detech brings the V3i to life in a way that no stock coils do, remarkably so. Dave did bring the CZs to market, which have stood the test of time. The F75 is a single frequency machine that operates like a multi in many ways. Still one of the very best machines out there.

Additionally, It is not common knowledge that Whites would be a lot further in the game if they hadn't stifled their engineers to a point where they felt the need to exit and/or go elsewhere. I have no doubt that the day is coming when First Texas is sitting in the catbird seat because of people like Carl. The things they were working on over there at Whites when everyone left, the world may never see from Whites now. The company gave away more than many companies accomplish. 

I agree with Carl in some respects and I agree with Steve in some. Though it is the performance that makes the machine, and I'm a happy Equinox owner, I don't care for the marketing tactics. They are disingenuous, as are many others,' and many units are sold based on marketing alone. I have spent a lot of time on social media and various forums to see people say they picked a particular machine solely on the basis of the number of frequencies it claims to run. In fact, this even affects Minelab purchase decisions as many people who own FBS products will not buy an Equinox saying things like "there's no way a 5 frequency machine can do better than a 28 frequency machine." If they understood the technical truth of the matter sooner they'd find that neither of them are either of that, and that the Equinox does actually have strengths that the even the CTX lacks. So my position would be that, yes most, if not all marketing departments use hyperbole, mislead, etc., it is important for there to be a rebuttal of those tactics by competitors when it comes to specific claims or implied claims that are being used for purchase decisions.

A little bit of knowledge is dangerous and that's what the vast majority of us have. Enough to be mislead, until we arrive at a point Steve has, where you say there's more to this than meets the eye without a full time career in it. I'll just stick to informed purchase decisions and what works. Learning not only are some machines not running as many as we've been misled to believe, but that it's also not a frequency numbers game to begin with is part of an informed purchase decision. Don't look at the numbers, but how people are saying it works. I do however think that going forward it's important for consumers understand that. If something better than the Equinox comes along running less than 5 frequencies or less than 28 in the case of marketing of FBS, many people will be cheating themselves going by specs that aren't easily understood until the real world checks in. Often unless there's a revolutionary difference it never does for some people until they read a thread like this and begin to question what they thought they knew. I've done a lot of research not only on metal detector technology, but the history behind companies and engineers. I've always found Carl himself to want to be accurate, honest and helpful. I don't think he's motivated solely by self promotion or promotion of FTP. 

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Cipher,

I agree 100% with your comment on using the Detech 13 Ultimate on the V3i. Using that coil and running the Deep Silver program and sweeping slow, can sniiff out deep silver extremely well. Just gotta listen for that high tone peep ! 

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I've had the V3i for a few years now, and just recently acquired the Ultimate 13. Prior to that I was experimenting with all the in house coils. I didn't want to run coils larger than those in its menu selection. More of a neurosis of mine. But people were praising it. I suspected hyperbole until I actually got my hands on one. I was impressed enough before. This coil has completely transformed my V3i. I don't want to take it off. I doubt I ever will. 

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yes 13 "coils have the deepest ID ...

canon G10 november 2018 004_DxO.jpg

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On 12/4/2018 at 9:54 PM, ☠ Cipher said:

So my position would be that, yes most, if not all marketing departments use hyperbole, mislead, etc., it is important for there to be a rebuttal of those tactics by competitors when it comes to specific claims or implied claims that are being used for purchase decisions.

I really like your entire post Cipher and I do agree with you.

How to fight manufacturers confusing and misleading? It takes educating the masses, and good luck with that, since we have a tiny voice and the manufacturers a HUGE voice. And it never ends. Latest Garrett catalog, hot off the press, bottom of page 29:

"Pulse induction metal detectors are also commonly referred to as multiple frequency detectors."

That is Garrett, an old line respected manufacturer, saying pulse induction detectors are commonly referred to as multiple frequency detectors. What utter nonsense. This is only being said to confuse, and to give the impression that yes, Garrett does multifrequency. Except they don't.

Manufacturers all need to be careful casting stones when it come to making confusing and misleading claims.

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On 12/8/2018 at 1:19 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

How to fight manufacturers confusing and misleading? It takes educating the masses, and good luck with that, since we have a tiny voice and the manufacturers a HUGE voice. 

No doubt. By the time the truth comes out and is passed down through forums etc, the marketing tactics have already done their job. It usually only has a small effect later on down the road after the initial sales boom, and on the second hand market. I am noticing a rise in the number of people discussing and questioning multifrequency platforms though. Here and everywhere. There are so many choices now that consumers are very confused coming into the hobby. There was enough confusion in single frequency choices. Now we have Pulse, multifrequency and single selectable becoming more dominant; multifrequency with single options, companies calling single selectable multifrequency, a company calling pulse multifrequency, talk of hybrids, half-sine and more coming down the pike. 

Some of us here are the lucky ones. Many of us have gotten into a kind of sweet spot where we understand enough to be attuned and conversant, where we know what methods do what and where, when to be skeptical, and what the limits of our own knowledge are. We have a certain level of competency as consumers that most do not. 

On the topic at hand, I don't know if all single frequency detectors are behind us. I remember reading a Dave Johnson essay where more than a couple decades ago when he and Fisher produced the CZs and Minelab with BBS (I don't remember who was first as I sit here), he was fairly sure that Multi would take over the industry from there. But single frequency technology began to grow and get better at a faster rate than multi, which had its weaknesses against a single dedicated frequency. Now multi and single selectable technology seems to be growing and gaining ground again.

I believe the Simplex as a very low cost waterproof model could have the same effect on the low end as Equinox has had on the mid-upper range. It's very possible that machines like Simplex and Equinox could rule the industry very soon, but if there's anywhere that a dedicated single frequency machine can outperform those, you'll continue to see arsenal hunters buy them until the day that single selectable or multi with single options can outdo them all at each task. We might not fully understand the compromises that may be made to make such machines rather than a dedicated machine. If I had to guess I'd say that single frequency machines that claim to do it all are probably seeing their own end times against multi and single selectable that claim to do it all. There may come a day soon where Multi and single selectable are reduced to the same status against some other technology, whether it be an advanced form of discriminating pulse, half-sine, or something else. U.S. Companies need to shift focus away from single frequency now I would think. If you can't do better than multi or single selectable currently on the market, or develop something new I don't see where you can go from here. 

I like to think about the kinds of things that can be done with a base machine that can communicate with wireless accessories like Equinox. Imagine the kind of add ons that could be innovated. You could really build off of a machine like that if you utilized cell phone apps, VR imaging etc. Why make one big, heavy expensive machine when you could distribute the weight and cost among other components. That kind of thing could leave others in the dust. 

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On 11/17/2018 at 2:33 PM, phrunt said:

What you are possibly indicating is multi IQ is basically a marketing gimmick, however.. even if multi IQ is over stated in it's abilities something is making the Equinox work better than a lot of other detectors, I've never had a detector with such accurate target IDs, I've found tiny little flecks of gold with it, I've found an insanely deep coin with it in snow, we are talking approximately 30 to 40cm deep buried in snow using quite a bit of discrimination and I also tested the T2 before digging with it's larger than stock Mars Tiger coil and it didn't even see the coin at all unless I changed to All Metal and then I got a bit of a noise on it but nothing to indicate it was a coin,  it's considered a deep machine and I do tend to run my gear maxed out as here, I usually can. 

The Equinox had a reasonably accurate Target ID on it so I was confident in the coin it was going to be before digging which is why I tested the T2 on it.  Others have obviously seen similar differences in it than their previous detectors hence all the hype on it.

I won't pretend to understand it, however something weird is going on inside that little box they call the Equinox.  If it's not multi IQ and multi frequencies causing the magic perhaps they've figured something else out to make it stand out over other machines and just aren't saying ?

I don't know if I'm confused by their marketing but this indicates you can run all the frequencies at once from what I can see

Multi-IQ Simultaneous Multi-Frequency

Low frequencies typically give more depth on large targets than high frequencies, which are usually more sensitive to small targets.

With EQUINOX you can operate across the full spectrum of frequencies simultaneously for maximum results

Simplified-Curves-EN-1200px.jpg

 

 

I think the key marketing phrase is "Multi-Frequency Range" and showing under it all 5 frequencies. What they should say is you can choose 2 frequencies from this range of frequencies or  two combinations of frequencies from this range of frequencies.

This is why we need smart guys to get down into the weeds and parse out the truth.

 

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