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Is The Day Of A Single Frequency Detector Past ?


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On 11/18/2018 at 11:16 AM, Steve Herschbach said:

I am quite certain myself that if it turns out Equinox works because there is a small squirrel inside the control box that makes all the decisions it will still continue to perform for me tomorrow just like it did yesterday. Good luck to all of you trying to litigate marketing statements with engineering reality. The fact is I sure don’t know how it works... I just know it works. :smile:

That is a fair statement, and if what I have to compete with is performance, I am happy to do so. But some people buy into the gee-whiz factor more so, and if I come out with a 3-frequency detector they're gonna ask why I couldn't do 5, or 17, or 28 frequencies. Things no one else has done, either. The only way I can compete with false claims is to trump them with more false claims of my own, something that never benefits the end-users, and personally offends my sense of ethics besides. Instead, I'll just state the truth and do the best I can.

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53 minutes ago, Geotech said:

That is a fair statement, and if what I have to compete with is performance, I am happy to do so. But some people buy into the gee-whiz factor more so, and if I come out with a 3-frequency detector they're gonna ask why I couldn't do 5, or 17, or 28 frequencies. Things no one else has done, either. The only way I can compete with false claims is to trump them with more false claims of my own, something that never benefits the end-users, and personally offends my sense of ethics besides. Instead, I'll just state the truth and do the best I can.

We are all rooting for you Carl. The problem will be that you have your own marketing people, and they also like to obscure facts. The T2+ and F75+ were not exactly examples of clarity in marketing, and honestly left a bad taste in my mouth. Minelab sure is not a box full of saints, but there is enough nonsense to go around from what I see. We have Nokta /Makro selling a selectable frequency machine as multifrequency, ignoring industry convention. How many people bought an F75+ thinking it really was an improvement on the F75? How many people are buying a Multi Kruzer thinking they are getting a multifrequency detector? Minelab is not an isolated party when it comes to making marketing claims that obscure the facts.

If I were you I would not worry. There are plenty of pragmatists like me who will gravitate to whatever works, regardless of who makes it, to win the day. Lots of people really are rooting for First Texas and waiting for whatever you are working on. It just can't be the F75++ :smile:

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Geotech ( Carl )

The day First Texas comes out with a true Multifrequency detector let me know. I will drive from San Antonio to El Paso with money in hand and buy it .

I will also treat you to a steak dinner.

I wish you well on this endeavor.

Chuck

PS Maybe it will go from First Texas to Texas First .

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I think we're all more pragmatist than not.  But, I'm mystified as to why Minelab even saw the need to mislead.  I don't mind puffery--"obsoletes all single frequency detectors," "our machine is the best," etc.--but suggesting the Equinox is something new because it uses five frequencies "simultaneously" makes a specific claim.  My cynical suspicion is that Minelab probably did try to do five frequencies simultaneously but somewhere during development found there just wasn't going to be enough horsepower under the hood (cpu speed, etc.) to do the processing effectively in anything approaching real-time, and had to reduce the number to two.  Of course, this raises the question as to the degree (if any) that performance is curtailed as a result.  Minelab itself states there is an advantage in using multiple frequencies because that produces more data points to analyze.  

Well, the Equinox still works, still has modern features, and still provides bang for the buck.  But, Multi-Q now appears even more like FBS than it did.  The main difference between it and FBS, which also apparently uses two fundamental frequencies at a time, may turn out to be that it just has a few higher fundamental frequencies from which to choose, allowing it to do better on some lower conductors.

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I see I need to clarify on what I said .

 If First Texas can come out with a detector equal to the Equinox 800 are better in what it has to offer and weight, I’ll make the trip.

 I just don’t see the need to advance to the rear when what I want is already here in the Equinox 800.

 The trip that I was talking about is six hundred miles but for some that’s on the market now I wouldn’t walk across the street for .

 Minelab has set the level in excellence with the Equinox 800 in capability,weight and price. 

I speak only for myself when I say this. The day of a detectors face covered in knobs is history and I came to that conclusion with my Eagle 2 in 1991.

 That has to be what 27 years back to 91 and yet some still don’t get it . That is anything less is less!

 Chuck 

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3 hours ago, Dubious said:

"obsoletes all single frequency detectors,"

From day one of the promulgation of the above statement I have believed it was 90% aimed at other manufacturers.   And the statement is forward looking to detectors by competitors that are still in the development stage.  So using the Nox 600 street price provides a ceiling price point that they have to butt up against with their single freqs, or if they can come up with a multi-freq a reference point for performance/features.

The latest two Makro-Nok releases have provided somewhat of a barometer to the future of Single Freqs.  In monitoring multiple forums the Multi Kruzer has had some cursory interest and the Anfibio far less.   Am I trying to disparage Makro-Nok?  No, they are simply the first to release single freq(multi-selectable) detectors that are all purpose waterproof detectors.  If they were true mult-freqs then they would be considered the first true Nox competitors.   White's released a gold specialty detector which is a niche product and not meant to be a jack of all trades.

Meanwhile back at the ranch.  Dimitar a former engineer for Fisher has been apparently noodling around in his garage or basement, and has purportedly come up with some new technology(possibly VLF/PI hybrid).  Which begs the question.....if a single guy on a shoestring budget can develop new detector technology, then why can't companies with actual engineering departments do something similar?

And if I were Makro-Nok I would have Dimitar on Speed Dial for a licensing deal.☎️

 

 

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5 hours ago, Dubious said:

 My cynical suspicion is that Minelab probably did try to do five frequencies simultaneously but somewhere during development found there just wasn't going to be enough horsepower under the hood (cpu speed, etc.) to do the processing effectively in anything approaching real-time, and had to reduce the number to two.

Building a 5-frequency metal detector would not be difficult, and there are plenty of processors with more than enough horsepower. But the transmit power gets divided amongst each frequency so you lose depth. There are tangible benefits to 2 frequencies. There are additional tangible benefits to 3 frequencies. There are almost no tangible benefits to more than 3 frequencies.

Quote

The main difference between it and FBS, which also apparently uses two fundamental frequencies at a time, may turn out to be that it just has a few higher fundamental frequencies from which to choose, allowing it to do better on some lower conductors.

That is a correct assumption.

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5 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Start driving Chuck - Carl will be waiting for you along with your new Fisher CZ-3D (Multiple-Frequency transmit, Dual Frequency Processing VLF Search 5 KHz and 15 KHz) :smile:

Aww c'mon, I would never do that. Not even for a steak dinner.

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