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Bad 2 Directional Falses After Upgrade With 6" Coil In Iron


amergin

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41 minutes ago, staffydog33 said:

All the complaints in the different gforums about the 6" coil has definitely put me off getting one.

 

Gutted, as I was soooo looking forward to it.

 

Matt

Kind of an over-reaction IMHO, but suit yourself. I understand how you wouldn't want to throw away money.  But IMO, the coil works great for what it is designed to do, hit small areas where it is hard to swing the stock coil.  It’s not an everyday coil or a big beach and field coil, for sure. Perhaps a tad falsy in bed o nails post update but not enough to make me regret the decision or even roll back the update (audio still provides the subtle ferrous cues).  I have recovered some deephigh conductors in swing-restricted situations where I would have no hope swinging the stock coil.  So for me, it is more of a special, situational coil. If that is not how you intended to use the coil, then you are probably not missing much by passing on it.  FWIW.

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I refrained from doubting to much because they did change the silver coin on edge thing.

That being said in the future we should start a thread like this before going straight to the engineers.

We could help affirm if a problem is real, perceived, market wide or anecdotal based on specific conditions.

Based on Cabin's finds and even my short experience (Still snowed in here) I would say the coil is fine.

I haven't frequented other forums to read if there is a problem or not, so I guess it's news to me.
Since this is the only user on this forum having a problem while dozens of others haven't noticed anything, I guess I wont get too excited.

The problem is sometimes people create an issue where there isn't one, run straight to a forum to tell us how they have the engineers scrambling.

That is why I asked what settings where used, when I really want to say have you swung a FBS for any length of time and do you know what you are doing? Think about it, Joe Schmoe buys his first detector expecting 100% accurate TID, of course he/she will think there is a problem when they dig that first bent nail. Context is everything.

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I have the 6" loaded on my 600 with the original firmware... hunted with it today... found a 7" War Nick in difficult soil in a trashy area next to a baseball field concession stand (you can imagine the noise there).  While I am switching back and forth between the stock and 15" on my 800.... this 6" never fails to uncover something I didn't expect.  Do I dig some iron?  yes.  Is that different than any other of 15 machines I have used... resounding no.  Your mileage may vary... but I am in no hurry to take the 6" off.  Tim.

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14 hours ago, staffydog33 said:

IMHO...you and Steve would never say a single negative thing about a Minelab and IMHO....you seem to try and seem to brush off any minelab problems and deny they exist.

Dude, FWIW...If the Equinox exploded when it turned on, you would brush it off and say it's not s fault etc.

Matt

Lol. Actually, Matt, I find your take on me humorous if not ironic as you have seen fit in the past to readily ridicule others for simply posting you tube videos critical of the Equinox.

I know you will find it hard to believe, Matt, but I’m actually brand and detector agnostic when it comes right down to it.  I’m a fan of having a relatively small but diverse mix of brands and machines (Deus, Equinox, GPX (PI), F75, MXT) that each do certain things well that the others do not, so I can use the right tool for the job.  And that’s about all I care about.  I am probably getting close to cutting ties with my venerable Fisher F75 (still the best ergonomics of any detector I have used) and/or the Whites MXT (love those analog controls) and likely will if a concentric coil suddenly shows up for the Equinox, but nothing on the horizon, yet.

Equinox happens to be perhaps the most versatile, but not necessarily the best for everything I like to do. 

Frankly, as far as my Equinox fanboy status is concerned, at the moment, I’m more partial to my Deus, especially with the new x35 coils, for relic hunting, specifically unmasking, in thick iron and mineralized soil.   There, I said it, and glad to get that off my chest.  Lol.

But since this is the “Equinox Fan Club” that is a story for another forum.  

Regarding the 6” coil you are so gutted about. I pointed out in my post where the 6-inch coil excels (which happens to be a very specialized, narrow situational application) and where it frankly is not so great.  Pretty objective post, I thought.  Guess I was wrong.

I read this thread in its entirety (as I am certain you have, too) and I see as much if not more praise (with some incredible finds shown to back it up) as I do criticism for the 6” coil.  As far as the criticism is concerned, some of it seems legit but tied mostly to the update which can be overcome by rolling it back.  I don’t know what all the other forums are saying, but nothing in this thread (or forum) would have dissuaded me from getting the 6” coil for my intended purpose, so I was having trouble reconciling why you were so down on it that you were going to pass.  I simply was just not getting that out of what I had read nor my personal experience with the coil.   That in a nutshell was simply the basis for my post.  But you have decided to deflect to me and the perceived bias you think I have for ML, rather than articulate YOUR specific reasons that you have soured on the 6” coil.  I am sure others could benefit from your reasoning beyond just reiterating that the inter-webs have deemed the 6” coil unworthy.

I frankly don’t overly weigh what the forums or you tube say to make my final product decisions as I like to put the equipment to the test in the field and then make up my own mind.  If it works out, great.  If not, I try to cut my losses as much as possible, sell or return the merchandise, as appropriate, and move on from the duds.  But if you never put your hands on the equipment, purely due to what you read or view on the internet, you may truly be missing out on some gem.  It’s like passing on a target because your machine is telling you it might be junk.  You can’t really be sure unless you dig it out of the ground.  Totally your call, of course, but if you think I have some vested interest in you picking up a 6-inch coil, sorry to disappoint you.

So, in conclusion, as far as my Equinox fanboy status,  I believe you have me pegged all wrong.  But if that’s how you feel about it, fine with me. There’s not a lot I can do about it except not lose any sleep or quit posting my opinions.  Peace.

HH

 

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"Lunch free"- in detection technology does not exist....the, high frequency,...high gain, and sensitive detectors will still be very sensitive to corroded iron, and the small coils has increased these properties ..you still can slightly reduce the sensitivity and the results will be good...I use to control the small 6 "coils of some suspicious signals User program low frequency program Beach 2, and there already these signals into pure iron.ID....-2, -6..remember the 6 "coil is also in Beach 2 - a sufficiently sensitive and deep coil....using sensitivity 20-24..

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On 11/30/2018 at 2:52 PM, Tiftaaft said:

I have the 6" loaded on my 600 with the original firmware... hunted with it today... found a 7" War Nick in difficult soil in a trashy area next to a baseball field concession stand (you can imagine the noise there).  While I am switching back and forth between the stock and 15" on my 800.... this 6" never fails to uncover something I didn't expect.  Do I dig some iron?  yes.  Is that different than any other of 15 machines I have used... resounding no.  Your mileage may vary... but I am in no hurry to take the 6" off.  Tim.

Congratulations, thats exactly how it worked for me before up dating Firmware, I was delighted that it did as promised and found items missed after multiple visits with different settings with my 11" coil,  As the focus of this discussion is seeing who has noticed a difference after firmware let me know if you up grade and see if it all changes, it appears some people are fine and some have really seen a difference, I will post comments from another forum also I know another user sold his due to the same problem I am having

 

Keep up the good work

 

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6 minutes ago, amergin said:

Congratulations, thats exactly how it worked for me before up dating Firmware, I was delighted that it did as promised and found items missed after multiple visits with different settings with my 11" coil,  As the focus of this discussion is seeing who has noticed a difference after firmware let me know if you up grade and see if it all changes, it appears some people are fine and some have really seen a difference, I will post comments from another forum also I know Calabash digger sold his due to the same problem I am having

 

Keep up the good work

 

In your first post you said you were "still" having problems with the 6" coil after update.

 

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Clarification

This discussion is not about who is right or wrong, or if you are not experiencing it it cannot exist

I simply said   "please post your experiences here, if you've experienced bad 2 directional falses after upgrade with 6" coil in Iron

as I want to pass it on to them, I appreciate all the advice and reading others experiences, Lets stay focused,

The discussion on Dectector technology and Iron in general or users expecting a free luch is not this discussion

its great that some people are not experiencing , but some people are, but it would be no reason not to buy coil

here area list of comments from other forums from people having similar issues:

User 1
The promise of the 6" coil seeing through nails was true, I experienced it myself first hand on sites i already cleaned out with 11" coil, but the upgrade turned the now obsolete 6" into an Iron lover

User 2
I've found some nice silver with the 6", but I can't handle the constant nail falsing. Iron Bias or not, it happens too frequently with it. So I had to ask myself, what am I really gaining with the 6"? The only positive for me is the phenomenally light weight and balance. All else, the stock coil seems to separate near equally when adjustments are made to recovery and swing speed. Also, I have to swing twice as much to cover the same ground with the 6. So I've decided to ditch the 6". I wanted to like the coil so badly, but it's been mostly a $180 nail finder for me. YMMV.

User 3
pre upgrade I found the 6" great when I got it on Iron filled colonial cellar sites , I had already hunted out with 11" it did as it promised find smaller good items amongst iron that I did not detect with multiple visits with 11" in many different modes and settings now after the upgrade, it falses badly on iron and sequels high pitched loudly only big iron I seriously thinking of reversing the up-grade before using 6" on a site I hunted out with 11" and then loading up grade when starting at a new site with 11"

User 4
Roll it back! I experienced the same with the update, that the 6" falsing was to the point of absurdity. It would also high-tone on moderately mineralized rocks. Rolling it back cut the 6" iron falsing down and eliminated the rock falses completely, but it still falses on nails too frequently here in my ground. I think I mentioned it elsewhere, but it's almost like the 6" coil needs its own dedicated program. Not sure that is possible, but one can wish.

User 5
Not sure what they did with the upgrade other than fix the obvious issues, but we need another version to cure these iron problems we are now having.

User 6
I sold mine,      it worked great pre upgrade, Now its useless, falses, even when I go over signal from multi directions signal is solid, I dig and it’s a nail

 User 7
 Thanks I agree , it would be nice to have a dedicated program for 6" with upgrade as I am very happy with 11" after upgrade,  11" definitely sharper especially when you run back over a spot you've hunted at low recovery and high sensitivity swinging slowly the smalls pop sort of acts like a 6" should

 User 8
I'm having a love/hate relationship with the 6" coil at the moment. I love that it is a deep laser beam, but hate that my nails have increased dramatically. I've tried to mitigate this with iron bias, sens, balance, and all other settings, but there's just no way around it. I'm being very picky too, but these are solid, consistent, repeatable VIDS in all directions... I've had my Nox since February and use it regularly, so I know my machine very well. It's enough of an annoyance that I am replacing my ProPointer with a Profind 35 in hopes of taking advantage of the pinpointer's iron disc. Otherwise, curious to hear other's experiences in regards to the 6" and nails.

User 9
I have the current update and only used the 6" once pre-update, and didn't dig any nails on that pre-update outing. I'm wondering if the update has made the 6" a nail magnet. The weird thing is that the nails I'm digging aren't just your typical falsing nails (bent 90's, square head, etc). They are ALL types including small 1" straight pieces. I am mostly a park1 one hunter, but have tested it across all park/field modes.

User 10
Bummer. Not sure I will keep it in the long run. I dunno. I went from digging 1 or 2 nails per hunt with the stock to ~25% nails with the 6". It's almost absurd, really, but I love the weight, balance, and depth.

User 11
The other new annoyance of the 6" is that it hits certain hot rocks as good high tones at my salt beaches. GB or not. Luckily they have a very short/crisp tone so I can usually tell. But it slows me down. Stock coil never did that.

User 12
It's almost like the 6" coil needs its own dedicated program, tailored for its size. Not sure that would ever happen, but maybe another update will resolve the crazy falsing.

User 13
Yes , sold my 6 inch coil. Gonna try another brand with a small coil to fit that part of my detecting. Thought I had it covered with the Nox 11 ,6 and Deus 9 hf coils but the 6 was disappointment after upgrade .

 

User1
Yes, the 6" with update is horrendous on two-way iron falsing, in my experiences. The falsing is so convincing of a good target that it is impossible to ignore. It also gives crisp high tones on hotter rocks at the beach that sound like small silver. I couldn't find any way around it, so I rolled the software back and haven't looked back. The 6" with the stock software is killer. Yeah, the depth meter is iffy, but after 9 months of using this machine, I've learned to listen for depth vs staring at the meter. Yeah, I might miss a large silver sitting perfectly 90 degrees vertically, but I'm ok with that. I'm having my best year ever using the stock software with both 11" and 6" coils. Roll it back, my dude.

User 2
As an engineer, I love the science behind this theory, but since I have two Equinoxes, I have purposely kept one dialed back to the original firmware for comparison purposes and while I have not had a chance to do exhaustive, controlled A to B comparisons, I have observed the falsing (or should I say high tone ferrous affinity) associated with the small coil and even the stock coil to be relatively slightly more pronounced with the post upgrade machine vs. pre upgrade at the same site under the same environmental conditions.  Again not scientific, I did not walk around my iron field site carrying two detectors at the same time, just observed switching off between the two over the course of back to back multi-day hunts at the same sites and my qualitative observations. The effect you describe, however, is real and affects ground noise feedback, ground phase variability, and the ground balance tracking algorithm, as well.   The enhanced halo effect in moist ground can definitely result in more falsing overall, but there is something definitely different in the way Equinox responds in this regard post upgrade.  

Frankly, overall I have not seen anything that tangibly compels me to go solely with either the post or pre upgrade firmware versions.  I like that the known User Profile reset bug has been addressed in the update and low profile, high mass, high conductive coin target ID (aka as the quarter on edge issue) response has been improved but perhaps with the subtle downside of falsing being introduced, but I don't think they "broke" anything.  To me, the upgrade is kind of a move sideways from a performance standpoint rather than a full on improvement.  Perhaps that is a function of the Equinox performance being pretty damn good and dialed-in out of the gate, so all ML can do with SW performance tweaks is nibble around the edges which just results tradeoffs while fixing fringe "issues" like this low probability on-edge coin thing and depth meter performance which is inherently unreliable outside of dime sized targets, anyway.  Regardless, looking forward to the next upgrade.

 

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4 minutes ago, Alluminati said:

In your first post you said you were "still" having problems with the 6" coil after update.

 

yes its not working for me and others ,  whats your point in relation to the inital question at the start of this discussion

, you said you haven't used yours much so when you do let us know if its fine, hopefully it is

Thanks

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