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Equinox 600 Vs Fisher F44 & F70


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On 12/4/2018 at 11:46 AM, Jeff McClendon said:

I actually agree with you about the lack of an all metal mode on the Equinox 600. For the price one pays for it I would happily have given up one of the Field or Beach modes for an all metal mode. But that is how Minelab has usually done things when it comes to their VLF detector families like the X-Terra series and the Go Finds too. They always leave off features in their less priced models which makes me think there really might be an Equinox 1000 someday.

Actually this is not about an economy model cost savings measure on ML's part but is sort of the way the detector design community is headed as they move heavier into digital signal processing.  It is not even clear to me that the CTX 3030 flagship detector has true all metal mode (as opposed to simply a zero discrimination pattern).  I do not own a CTX, just went through the manual in detail, so I am sure a CTX expert will set me straight.  But  I can tell you with certainty, the Deus @ $1500 does not have a true all metal mode (Gold Field mode being the closest approximation).  Point is, this is not about saving cost.  It is about the the detector designers favoring digital signal processing over transmitting the raw unfiltered signal.  All metal mode is not something you will automatically find on many high end detectors.  So the OP's statements like, "When I pay $650.00 for a machine I expect it to have that option on it -period. Their is no excuse why it does not" that imply the lack of a true all metal mode is an Equinox oversight or that all high end detectors have this feature, is not consistent with many high end detector designs of recent years (though true metal is still a feature on a number of recently released detectors).  Though I do understand why you like it, Maltfoto, my point was there are ways you can use the Equinox zero disc mode to your advantage without losing a lot of capability vs. true all metal and, as I discuss below, the 800 would have been more suited to your feature preferences and detecting style.

The move in the detector community away from including All Metal Mode or at least the marketeer's imprecise use of technical terms that have kind of blurred the line between Zero Disc mode and (true) All Metal Mode is addressed in Steve's excellent Detector Mixed Modes Guide.  This will better illustrate whey you will not find all metal mode on all detectors, even high end detectors, and also how it can be mitigated through mixed modes or intelligent application of available features on detectors which do not incorporate the feature.

Regarding Equinox.  Gold Mode available only on the 800 is probably the closest thing to a mixed mode.  It invokes most features of true all metal mode through its use of VCO pitch like audio and true audio threshold for target acquisition and target ID at depth using the discrimination circuit.  Though still not precisely true all metal, this weak signal mode is also the mode that is the ideal mode to test small gold target performance versus the Fishers.  Again, it seems for the type of detecting Maltfoto prefers, the 800 would have been the better choice.  Regardless, I think the 600 is a great complimentary detector that, despite its shortcomings, does still have advantages over the Fishers in some, if not most, scenarios.   So hanging on to it and learning more about how to get more out of it with experience would be a great move by Maltfoto, if getting an 800 is out of the question.  Thanks again to Maltfoto for kicking off a great discussion.

 

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  • 1 year later...

On 12/2/2018 at 7:48 PM, Maltfoto said:

I don't used f70 on the beach. I use the f70 along with Whites Tdl for nugget hunting and gold prospecting.  

If I may ask, what coil do you use on the F70 for nugget hunting? Thanks.

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This has been an interesting thread.   At a high level it says if your existing detectors are better than your Nox, its because you bought the wrong NOX.

HAHAHAHA.   

Sorry....just really funny reading when you don't have a horse in the race.

I'm not surprised about the F70 results.   If you put the little 3x6 concentric on it you have a pretty decent micro jewelry detector that is about as sensitive as the GoldBug Pro.     

I liked the concept of the F44 but I didn't really care for it, mostly because I couldn't hear it very well.      

HH
Mike

  

.

 

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11 hours ago, Optix said:

If I may ask, what coil do you use on the F70 for nugget hunting? Thanks.

Like Mike said, small concentrics are great unless the ground is really nasty, then small DD. Small is the key in either case. The F70 is an excellent little nugget sniper.

Mike, the thread originated on the Minelab forum as a “hi, I’m here on the Minelab forum to tell you your Minelab sucks” type of post. So yeah, that gets some pushback, and is why I moved it to this forum instead. Long term result looks like the guy was trolling the Minelab forum, and long gone now.

Buying an 800 versus a 600 as relevant as regards nugget detecting is more than just groupie talk, as you laugh seems to imply. Gold Mode is more than just a pretty name.

Personally I think the Patriot/F70 is one of the best deals going in detectors these days.

fisher-f70-metal-detector.jpg
Fisher F70 metal detector

fisher-f70-control-panel-display.jpg
Fisher F70 control panel

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14 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Like Mike said, small concentrics are great unless the ground is really nasty, then small DD. Small is the key in either case.

Fisher F70 control panel

Is there any real difference between an original Fisher 5" DD and an aftermarket 5" DD (e.g. NEL) for the same detector?

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2 hours ago, Optix said:

Is there any real difference between an original Fisher 5" DD and an aftermarket 5" DD (e.g. NEL) for the same detector?

Good question

But personally I own and like the NEL Snake DD due to the 3.5” x 6.5” size, which I prefer over 5” round.

bounty-hunter-time-ranger-pro-metal-detector-2020-nel-snake-coil.jpg

 

 

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  • 5 weeks later...

That is some great info there! So there is a lot of variation from coil to coil within a lineup. But does a statistically average coil of one brand outperform an average coil of the same size from another brand? Maybe one brand uses a different technique to make their loops better in general?

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12 hours ago, Optix said:

...Does a statistically average coil of one brand outperform an average coil of the same size from another brand?

There is a lot of anecdotal evidence within the metal detecting community.  Systematic studies, OTOH, are rare.  Finding a 'statistically average coil' would be a significant (and costly) undertaking in itself.  It's not like there is the equivalent of a government funded National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) for metal detecting equipment.

Even if you could find such, so much of this endeavor involves specific conditions (e.g. soil/ground condition, electromagnetic interferece environment, intended target / test target choice, actual human doing the test,...) that it's conceivable one coil could be superior in some situations and a different coil in others.

Take everyone's statements/claims with a grain-of-salt.  And if someone (particularly the claimant) objects to such caution, make it two grains of salt.

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  • 3 years later...
Guest WV CoinMiner

I'm going to chime in to this old post. One user posted the get your popcorn ready and started this so I'm adding to it. Back ground I own 22 metal detectors friends with NASA Tom by phone and Keith Southern use to be a dealer for Compass post burned down factory which led me to getting to know Keith Wills, and am friends with my "Navy Seal" buddy Rusty Henry. Been doing this hobby since 1983. Been on and of forums for years don't get to caught up in the banter either but got to set the record straight about all these new hyped machines and why America companies are out of business in this hobby. 

First off it is you the user that put demands on this so called break through technology of todays machines more bells and whistles to mess with, the more intriguing the machine if that's what you really wanted then the Whites V3i ended the whole debate, infinity adjustments, and cool color screens had everything. So what went wrong with White's? You got what you asked for. I myself never got into White's until 3 years before they bellied up been using Tesoro since 2000 prior to that Compass loved the Gold Scanner Pro and the coin computer had a tone for everything, just had to carry it in your neck if you hunted all day. What I'm getting at is the FCC has set a limit to the send and receive power output of all metal detectors for the hobbyist so depth is already preset as far as power output, can we agree on that? Next and this will hurt alot of feelings out there, when talking about coin, jewelry and relic recovery, I have found that probably no one does this correctly maybe 1% of you if that and I haven't read any post to such a degree that validates what I'm about to say. When you find and area that deems detecting which you have researched and have high hopes for discoveries even your local park, do you actually physically take 4 poles set them 10' apart to grid an area? If so do you grid the area North to South and East to West and then criss cross one corner to the other just a normal swing length it would be 1 pass one corner then back then do opposite corner same way? I bet the answer is a Big Fat NO! 

If your still with me and have done this then the next thing is did you dig all nonferrous or good targets on every pass? Did you run 5 different machines through this using the same procedures? Did you use at least 3 different coils for each detector? 

Now the 10x10 area just turned into a football field hang in there with me this is going some where, I have done this for alot of years clear up to present day, metal detecting is one of two things, lots of work or you go out to have fun aka Cherry Picking. In my results of this I have come to the conclusion that NO Matter what machine I use I always find stuff that was missed by another machine including my Deus 1, Minelab Etrac, Nokta Impact, Omega 8000, White's MXT All Pro, MX7, Fisher F5 etc,etc,etc.

Reason number one I recovered items that help unmask other items being hidden, number 2 different coils made a difference especially the after market coils out in the last 10 to 12 years, to that point I would say owning 1 detector with 5 different coils is better then owning 5 different detectors. The next big boom is going to be in coil development technology different wiring or graphen or liquid, wire hybrid not an electrical engineer but it's coming. 

Back on Topic it is you the consumer that believes more functions or displays and computer technology make for a better detector, WRONG! 

It's what's between the ears and your work ethic toward your hobby. I have invited people hear to my area in WV and alot have said to me West Virginians never had nothing to lose because they didn't find much...lol

I plug along and search some areas over after giving a 3 to 5 year break because soil does move and I'll come across a coin here or there that I missed because conditions at the time didn't allow for said item to be recovered at that given time and a recent example was using a modified White's IDX Pro Mr.Bill mod but done by Keith Southern and found a 6 inch deep Wheatie almost on a 12 to 6 edge more leaning to 1 on the clock dial. How did I miss this?

So as Tesoro fell to the wayside real reason the family no longer wanted to be in business just was done with it, wouldn't even sale out to the employees. White's I'm guessing the samething as fast as Garrett bought them maybe!

First Texas still make Great products CZ3D great F75 all the Teknetics lines even the Bounty Hunters get bold fresh control box update. You think these single frequency detectors are outdated throw on a new after market coil like a Detech Arrow or Mars or NEL Sharpshooter and tell me different. The absolute best performance technology lies between your ears and really good hearing helps too.

I leave on this note for old out dated single frequency machines that aren't supposed to find the goods at the frequency they are designed for ask Mike Hollis how many GOLD Rings his Fisher F5 has found, he realized a niche for this detector, People it isn't the detector it's what you have confidence in and I guess not many people had the confidence in paying $1300 for the White's V3i with all the latest and greatest features because maybe just maybe you got talked out of it because someone posted it was to complicated or something else. This hobby isn't suppose to be instant gratification it is work, but at the same time it is fun, speaking of work have you had the privilege to layer a spot to metal detect I have and got the idea from NASA Tom and it is work. That's where you detect a spot recover everything skin off 8 inches of dirt throw it on a tarp go over it again then detect the next 8 inches and keep repeating. It was interesting but will never do it again the place was old house cellars more work then reward and now I know my limits when it is no longer fun, Do you know yours? One last thing, First Texas is selling Teknetics Patriot for $180 or best offer and many other detectors on flee Bay now the equinox 600 doesn't look so great to my bank account and "they forgot to tell the newbie he has dp pitch to detect in which is a unique feature overlooked" but it really is what you can afford and feel comfortable with. I'm not brand loyal but everyone was putting the newbie who started the post in his place so to speak, I just wanted to finish it, how ever many years later, enjoy the flutes and I'll enjoy one of my 23 detectors, like I said I own a flute too and 6 coils for it. Happy CoinMining.

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You mentioned a lot of great detectors in your post along with sound grid hunting advice that I have been using for years both for coin, jewelry, relic and gold prospecting detecting.

I didn't pay $1300 for a Whites V3i. I paid about half of that for a nice used one. It didn't work any better in the soil conditions where I hunt usually than any of the other detectors you mentioned in the post that I have used here in my many years of trying to find just one coin, jewelry, micro jewelry, relic and gold prospecting VLF that I can depend on to get decent depth, accurate target IDs and tones, wireless audio operation so I can detect without being tethered to the detector and the detector is lightweight and waterproof.

The owner and administrator of this forum has repeatedly said something to the effect that: " the conditions of the ground being detected trump every other factor" including the brand of detector, where its made or especially the user themselves.

There are places even in the USA where this ground factor outweighing every other factor exists. It doesn't matter what is between your headphone ear cups as far as years of experience or know how unless maybe for the shallowest to surface targets of the easiest kind. I live in one of those places. The only VLF detectors that come close to doing what their marketing and engineering departments claim they can do are the latest simultaneous multi frequency detectors by XP, Minelab and Nokta. That is from experience not from reading reports from places where the advantages of the latest SMF tech doesn't really matter. In those places, any decent single frequency detector will probably do just fine. Unfortunately, I don't live in a place like that, so everything you said about not needing the latest tech is just hogwash where I live.

Hopefully WVCoinMiner,  you hunt in areas where your ground conditions are really good for USA made single frequency VLF detector use. Sounds that way.

Welcome to the forum by the way.

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