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Story Of A Little Known Mine In The Superstition Mountains In Arizona


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Go easy guys. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on subjects like this, and the Lost Dutchman Mine is far from established fact as a real mine. Any explanations involving discussions of "believe this" or "believe that" are discussions of beliefs, not established and proven geologic facts.

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Azblackbird you must not of read my post clearly. Never did I talk about or mention ldm, Jesuits, or Spanish. I only stated about the supposed mining of a previous 90ft shaft during the summer months 1997-1999. Listen to gollum he uses words like the story goes,supposedly, claims to be. This is a story from a book written by Jack San Falice. I spent most of my life hiking in the superstitions and have also done much research in the Lost Dutchman. The superstitions are extremely rough terrain and not even your Rokon would make it.I just don't see how someone went into the Superstitions and worked a shaft down to 300 ft in the summer.

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BD... I was just joshing with ya and being a little sarcastic to boot. I totally agree with you. It's a nice story! The Supers are no doubt some very rough country which leads me to believe that not much activity (mining wise) took place in those hills for that very fact. The logistics of the myths and tales and what it would take to mine in that area just don't add up contrary to what many would have you believe.

Here's a thread by one of the FS guys (now retired) that was in charge of examining any permits for "treasure troving" in the Supers. He pretty much confirmed my beliefs and suspicions. This guy knows his doodoo!

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/lost-dutchman-s-mine/32106-treasure-trove-permits.html

Personally, I do believe there was some pocket mining/prospecting going on in the late 1800's and again in the 1930's, which would validate some of the holes people have found over the years, but nothing on a wide scale basis as the legends and myths would have you believe. I'm no geologist, but I just don't think there's that much mineral activity in the mountains themselves. It's just too volcanic. Now on the other hand... once you get out of the hills and around the perimeters, there's tons of minerals as evidenced by many of the historical finds (Goldfield) and by even some of the present day activity (Miami-Globe) which undoubtedly has proven to be very rich.

I guess everybody has to believe in something, so maybe I shouldn't poo-poo the LDM hunters so much. At lease the majority of those people who really believe in the legends and the myths of the LDM are getting out and doing something. Many of them get together each year and swap tales around the camp fire, and at least get out and do some hiking, whether they find anything or not, they're at least getting out and enjoying what mother nature has to offer. That's always a good thing.  :)

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Az,

Thats quite a link and the subsequent posts by this Scott fellow from the USFS in Phoenix. There are 31 pages to that thread and from 2006 to boot.I just got an email from a well known longtime LDM hunter who is now convinced the gold came from elsewhere than the Supers but better not say who, so feathers don't get ruffled. Hmm, my box of cookies and cream ice cream is about gone....dang it...

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AZBB,

First, I have known Scott Wood for about 15 years. He just retired about a month ago after almost 40 years in and around Tonto.

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BD... apparently you don't know much about the LDM. First of all, the Spanish or the Jesuits did all the easy work and dug all the mines in the SWA many hundreds of years ago before it was a wilderness area. After digging their mines, they then hauled all the tailings away so there was no trace of their mining. Plus they booby trapped all their mines so nobody else could find them or steal any ore when they went on vacation and came back to dig some more. Don't believe me, just ask Gollum, he's an expert on the LDM and will verify what I say. Second of all, Jacob Waltz was the best miner in the entire state of AZ, and maybe even the world at the time. He was able to find the richest ore in history right smack dab in the middle of the Superstition Mountains. Once again, just ask Gollum. He'll tell you the ore assayed out to something like 10,000 ounces of gold to the ton. Nobody else has ever been able to find that rich of ore since then anywhere else in AZ.

 

I believe everything Gollum says... he's been studying and researching the LDM for at least 25 years or more, so what he says is the truth. I think he's even been to the Superstitions a few times looking for the LDM, so that makes what he says even more believable. On top of that, there are Stone Maps that lead right to the mine. Those are facts that can not be disputed, as they are real and are now in a museum.  :lol:

While you may have just been joshing with BD, I detect a different situation towards me. PLEASE come to the Rendezvous this year. I would dearly love for you to be insult me to my face.

 

BD,

Yes, I have been in the Supers many times. I'm only 8-9 hours away in Los Angeles. 

You raise many good points, and I will try and answer them all. First, yes I have hauled literally tons of very heavy equipment up and down mountains, through deserts and swamps. I jumped out of airplanes in first the US Navy and after the US Army. In a Ranger Bn, the Commo Man's ruck is (or at least was in the 1980s) about 150 pounds (the only heavier was the mortarman's baseplate). That 150lbs doesn't include weapons (which in my case was usually an M-60 and a .45). I had to do a lot of heavy lifting being 6'4" and 285lbs helps a lot. HAHAHA

On the East end of the Supers (especially in the Summer months) not a lot of people in that area. The road into the area is very long and anyone can see anyone coming many miles before you get there. There are also no trails in or around the area. Maybe these pics of The H.E.A.T.  Dig no more than five miles from the Pit Mine will give you an idea of how it was done:

(The following pictures are from www.dutchhunter.com )

uZkC6T.gif

You were saying something about a muck bucket? This one was over 100 pounds.

You're going to need lumber for the headframe!

YOqtKc.gif 37Z1pe.gif  VKSvFn.gif

.....and don't forget the cable reel!

75Mdqv.gif

...and voila, what were you saying about something to bring up all the ore?

Kz8Ub0.gif  aWmI6H.gif

You will also need boards for shoring!

Pn6jie.gif  nzc0nV.gif

This old Spanish Mine was the first ever treasure trove permit issued for the area. It was done by hand and horse.

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I'm calling shenanigans just a story made up by a armchair prospector with zero experience hard rock mining. This is my opinion. 

REALLY?

Waltz said his mine had two sources of gold. One was an 18" thick seam of white AND rose quartz a bunch of visible gold. There was also a vein about 8" wide of volcanic tuff that had a lot of gold when panned. Look carefully at that pic of the gold/quartz specimen. I see lots of red staining. You are also only seeing one piece of an awful lot. 

What they used to break out the ore? No idea. I wasn't involved. The HEAT Dig was absolutely legal, and everybody involved had a lot of hardrock mining experience. Go on over to Goldfield and ask Bob Schoose about the HEAT Dig, and how they hauled everything in by hand and horse. Maybe you will call Bob an armchair prospector? HAHAHA Yeah, armchair. 

The story was IN a book by Jack San Felice, but it didn't originate with him. It will also be included in his newest book (whenever that comes out). 

I used the words/terms supposedly, maybe, and such for several reasons. One of them is because since I was not involved in the dig, I am not comfortable using absolute terms about something I did not see with own eyes (no matter how much I believe it is true).

I will post some more in a while.

Mike

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On 4/23/2015 at 10:03 PM, gollum said:

.....

While you may have just been joshing with BD, I detect a different situation towards me. PLEASE come to the Rendezvous this year. I would dearly love for you to insult me to my face.

BD,

Yes, I have been in the Supers many times. I'm only 8-9 hours away in Los Angeles.

You raise many good points, and I will try and answer them all. First, yes I have hauled literally tons of very heavy equipment up and down mountain, through deserts and swamps. I jumped out of airplanes in fist the US Navy and after the US Army. In a Ranger Bn, the Commo Man's ruck is (or at least was in the 1980s) about 150 pounds (the only heavier was the mortarman's baseplate). That 150lbs doesn't include weapons (which in my case was usually an M-60 and a .45). I had to do a lot of heavy lifting being 6'4" and 285lbs helps a lot. HAHAHA

Mike

roflmao-hell i would like to go just to observe. lol.

my motto: always be respectful, not judgemental-until someone keeps giving you a reason to be otherwise.

very good stuff, much appreciated.

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No worries Steve,

I don't personally know AZBLACKBIRD. Never met the person. I haven't ever (to my knowledge) said anything that could be considered impolite or rude to him (unless maybe he posts under other names and maybe we had a go round that way, which is entirely possible). His post took me a little by surprise. That is one of the things I despise about the internet. It is far too easy to be a jerk without any consequences. Being a jerk face to face can have consequences (which is the way it should be). 

BD,

One more thing, since I like to think of myself as being an honest person (with me, what you see is what you get), I have to admit the possibility that the pictured ore is from someplace else, and that the Pit Mine Story is just that. I'm not saying that because I made it up (or Jack San Felice). I am saying that because since I was not personally there to see anything that happened, I cannot say with 100% certainty that any of it happened (except what I have pictures of), and when you are talking about an illegal dig in the Superstition Wilderness Area, you should be careful about throwing around names and information as facts when they are hearsay and theory. Now, if you ask me what do I believe, I will say that I have known about the Pit Mine for several years. Until recently, I have always thought that is the stories were true, then they found one of several of the Peralta/Gonzalez Mines that are in the area of the Supers. A few of them have been found already. Look at the 

Mike

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On 4/23/2015 at 10:03 PM, gollum said:

While you may have just been joshing with BD, I detect a different situation towards me. PLEASE come to the Rendezvous this year. I would dearly love for you to insult me to my face.

How do you figure I was insulting you? Everything I said about your knowledge and experience on the Supers and LDM was true... right? If not, then I apologize for making you out to be somebody you're not.

No offense Mike, but I'm not going to waste my time going to some rendezvous of Dutch Hunters. I'm sure everybody is nice and everything and I'd probably have a good time, but I just don't believe in all that gobbledygook. I'm sorry, but the LDM stuff is just not my thing. I'd rather concentrate my efforts on what I know is true fact.

Here's what I will do though. When you're in town for the LDM rendezvous (or anytime in the fall/winter), set aside an entire day and I will take you out to my neck of the woods (Bradshaws) and we can do some real gold prospecting. You can drive my Rhino and I'll ride my Rokon and we'll head for the hills and see what we can find. Feel free to send me a PM (either here or on TNET) when you have your plans defined and know which days you'll be in the Phx area and we'll make it happen. Sound like a deal?  B)

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On 4/24/2015 at 0:17 PM, azblackbird said:

How do you figure I was insulting you? Everything I said about your knowledge and experience on the Supers and LDM was true... right? If not, then I apologize for making you out to be somebody you're not.

No offense Mike, but I'm not going to waste my time going to some rendezvous of Dutch Hunters. I'm sure everybody is nice and everything and I'd probably have a good time, but I just don't believe in all that gobbledygook. I'm sorry, but the LDM stuff is just not my thing. I'd rather concentrate my efforts on what I know is true fact.

Here's what I will do though. When you're in town for the LDM rendezvous (or anytime in the fall/winter), set aside an entire day and I will take you out to my neck of the woods (Bradshaws) and we can do some real gold prospecting. You can drive my Rhino and I'll ride my Rokon and we'll head for the hills and see what we can find. Feel free to send me a PM (either here or on TNET) when you have your plans defined and know which days you'll be in the Phx area and we'll make it happen. Sound like a deal?  B)

I think anybody that reads your post will see the same thing I did. If that isn't how you intended it, then that's fine. That is the way it came across. Lets just say its quashed now.

I know a little about hard work:

OdnS9X.jpg

That is a hand made trail through to a friends site in the Coronado Natl Forest. Combination of Pinch/Pry Bars, hand moving boulders, and for solid rock, we rode Polaris Ranger 6x6 and carried in a 5k generator and a Bosch Jackhammer. 

Part of your previous post is kind of correct though. Waltz was a very experienced prospector. He started in North Carolina, then Georgia, found his way to the Mother Lode in Northern California, in 1861 we found him mining along the San Gabriel River (about 20 miles from my house) near L.A. He left there, and was one of the very first miner/prospectors in Arizona Territory with the Weaver/Peeple's Party. They were the ones that discovered the "Potato Patch" (nuggets the size of potatoes) on Rich Hill (Stanton) and after, discovered gold in The Bradshaws, where he owned three good paying claims (The Gross, Big Rebel, and General Grant Claims). He was in the Bradshaws for four years before moving to Phoenix in 1868.

Your offer sounds good to me. I haven't been in the Bradshaws yet. You name a mountain range from Northern Mexico to the Mojave Desert, and I have likely been there at some point in time. In Arizona, the Supers and The Tumacacoris. The only type of prospecting I REALLY don't like is drywashing. I had a Keene Puffer, and took it out a few times, and came to the realization that dry washing wasn't for me. A lot like sanding drywall. I helped a friend rehab a house in the early 1990s. Cement Boogers for days after. HAHAHA. I don't mind a pick, but I prefer Kinepaks. :-)

Mike

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