My Soil Sucks Please Help With Equinox 800

[Jeff McClendon]

Hi bethanyb 1201,

You have had some good advice here. I would like to hear if any of it has helped you. We are all learning here and even though we have different levels of experience, we all have had our Equinox 800s and 600s for a year or less and are still trying new things. Please respond so we can all learn from you too.

Chase, I have had no problems running either Gold 1 or Gold 2 in higher mineralization. If things get a bit sideways I up the discrimination a bit (to -5 or -4 or so) and turn down the sensitivity one or two notches (to 15 or so). My 800 still gets plenty of depth.

Jeff

[bethanyb1201]

Hello all... I am still here and I didnt forget about anyone.(Gold mode didnt work) I have taken soil samples and I am in the process of getting them analyzed. I wanted an indebth response that wasnt full of wramblings. I did use an entry level machine DUE TO BAD SOIL.. I have a V3I and a Deus in my closet and neither of those worked for me due to the soil. I believed the hype that the 800 would eat up mineralized soil. So I will respond once I get a breakdown of whats going on. I even had them test the electromagnetic properties of the soil. The belief is a high powered machine sucks and a low powered machine is ideal due to targets not being real deep anyway. My test garden is worthless! Once you disturb the unique soil levels of glacial till it no longer has the same properties as it did before. Here is what i did but I havent had time to test. I dug a trench 3 ft deep and went about inserting my various objects from the side versus the top. This way the layers stayed in tact. I am currently on assignment and unable to respond as often as I would like. I am not a newbie by any means and only used the bounty hunter due to it not going nuts and not being able to get down to my problem area. I am leaning towards a techincal issue with my nox 800. I am preparing a heavily detailed post once I get results back but until then I am not one for useless comments. I will throw one out there since one poster thinks I am a newbie coming from an entry level machine. I have owned many machines and I couldnt connect with them(soil issues I later learned). My current ones work well for different places but I was hoping the nox would replace the 3 I currently have. I believe it will besides the whites. Putting less info about yourself gets you better responses than having a **** judging contest listing years of experiqnce with this many machines ect. I should mention the silver I found last year was at a local school in operation from 1901-1971 and was NEVER hunted. I found quite a few indian head pennies last weekend with the deus and guess what? Same debth as the 60s memorials I found . More to follow Ty all for comments and tips.

[Chase Goldman]

No one machine can work miracles.  I have a Deus and Equinox both and there are things that each one does better than the other and I have a PI for nasty hot soil.  Glad you are getting the soil analyzed. 

No need to hold back on your background here, we can only make guesses about your experience level here if you do.  Steve tends to keep the judging BS to a minimum. I think its perfectly sound for people to infer newbie when you only mention only the BH with no other context.  Would have helped me focus my response to you better, knowing what I know now about your background.

BTW Did you try Beach 2 like I suggested?  Lower transmit power tends to provide a cleaner return signal in high mineralization, like using TX1 on the Deus.without having to lower sensitivity too much, like you had to on beach 1, and Beach 2 my balance the salt effects like beach 1. 

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[bethanyb1201]

11 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

No one machine can work miracles.  I have a Deus and Equinox both and there are things that each one does better than the other and I have a PI for nasty hot soil.  Glad you are getting the soil analyzed. 

No need to hold back on your background here, we can only make guesses about your experience level here if you do.  Steve tends to keep the judging BS to a minimum. I think its perfectly sound for people to infer newbie when you only mention only the BH with no other context.  Would have helped me focus my response to you better, knowing what I know now about your background.

BTW Did you try Beach 2 like I suggested?  Lower transmit power tends to provide a cleaner return signal in high mineralization, like using TX1 on the Deus.without having to lower sensitivity too much, like you had to on beach 1, and Beach 2 my balance the salt effects like beach 1. 

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Beach 1 and 2 acted exactly the same. They are the only modes I can use with power above 15. I am sending in my Nox for repair just to be on the safe side. Neither of the other two high powered machines act this way even if they have same limitations. The reason I dont want to continue with the bounty hunter is due to soil depth changes and speed.  I have to move like a snail with the BH and knowing the soil depths can change in a matter of feet has led me down this road. The soil in the places I hunt has the following layers 1st layer is normal grass/thatch which is 1-3 inches and the second layer is a black loomy rocky(pebble size) soil or black sandy soil. The third layer is a grayish clay. I have never found anything in the clay layer even when I borrowed a friends ATX for a few weeks last summer. I even hunted and old turn of the century site where a big canning plant was. All the big chunks of lead were sitting on top of the clay layer same as if I hit them with 800, BH or Deus. Ok back on point.... The middle layer is my issue. The bounty hunter being low powered will find most things the others will in areas where the 2nd layer is only 1-3 inches. So I need a machine I can get through the 2nd layer all the way to the clay. With the black loomy rocky soil I get false signals all the time. I then dig and dig and nothing. The sandy loomy layer is the biggest problem. It seems no matter what machine I use I cant hit anyrhing in that layer. The electromagnetic properties are strange in that it soaks up the signal and the machine gets chattery. The only things I have found in this type is while it was still attatched to the top layer or just starting to sink into the loomy sandy soil. I bet alot of goodies have went into the layer and are waiting to be found. I just cant find anything that will hit in this stuff. The difference in depth from 1 foot to the next can change from 1/2 inch of the 2nd layer to 15 inches of the second layer. I know I am confusing everyone and I am sorry I just cant explain it any better. I am also going to order a 6in coil for the nox and see if that helps.

[Noah (FL)]

Didn’t mean any offense, just seemed like a common one and done question at first glance. I was doing some reading into the glacial till soil you have, sounds intense and I’m glad to hear you are making headway with different machines in your unique soil conditions.  Just adds to the adage of “don’t believe the hype”.  While new technology can offer advantages in some situations it’s rarely a panacea and with the wildly varied soil conditions we can face you still have to find what works for your hunting style and conditions. Increased power and “depth” aren’t always advantageous. Sometimes KISS is the best policy, that’s why I still enjoy my simpleton Tesoros for most of my detecting.  Best of luck with your soil and machine testing, and welcome to the forum!

[bethanyb1201]

8 minutes ago, Noah (FL) said:

Didn’t mean any offense, just seemed like a common one and done question at first glance. I was doing some reading into the glacial till soil you have, sounds intense and I’m glad to hear you are making headway with different machines in your unique soil conditions.  Just adds to the adage of “don’t believe the hype”.  While new technology can offer advantages in some situations it’s rarely a panacea and with the wildly varied soil conditions we can face you still have to find what works for your hunting style and conditions. Increased power and “depth” aren’t always advantageous. Sometimes KISS is the best policy, that’s why I still enjoy my simpleton Tesoros for most of my detecting.  Best of luck with your soil and machine testing, and welcome to the forum!

None taken ? I know the rich history of my town and the rich men that started it means if I can unlock the secrets hidden in that middle glacial till area I will find the money tree seeds! When the town was started by two wealthy men in the mid 1800s they invisioned a "retreat for the wealthy" They built big beautiful houses and the bank only delt in gold coins for $5 and up. This dream only lasted for 5 years but the town was BOOMING! It was the second biggest town in Illinois for a brief period and had the highest per capita net worth of any town in the country at the time. This is all old newspaper based info but I believe it for 1 reason. In the mid-late 1800s the bank burnt to the ground and fire breached the safe. The newspaper had a hand drawing along with an article that stated " bank was destroyed by fire and documents in safe were destroyed. Luckily only gold was used so no currency was lost" That is in my own words of course. The drawing was of giant clumps of melted gold coins. With that event and the fact we know alot of rich people lived here means somebody lost gold coins and probably buried some also. It seems the cut off for coins I have found is 1880s.. thats small silver and 0 big silver. I honestly believe there has to be big silver and gold deeper in the 2nd layer. You have to remember glacier till is soft and i have found memorials at same debth(on top of clay or rock layer) as I have barbers. The park and the homes were all built up or put on hills which means the difficult layer is deeep in the extremely weathy or high traffic areas. I will crack this nut!

[midalake]

57 minutes ago, bethanyb1201 said:

Beach 1 and 2 acted exactly the same. They are the only modes I can use with power above 15. I am sending in my Nox for repair just to be on the safe side. Neither of the other two high powered machines act this way even if they have same limitations. The reason I dont want to continue with the bounty hunter is due to soil depth changes and speed.  I have to move like a snail with the BH and knowing the soil depths can change in a matter of feet has led me down this road. The soil in the places I hunt has the following layers 1st layer is normal grass/thatch which is 1-3 inches and the second layer is a black loomy rocky(pebble size) soil or black sandy soil. The third layer is a grayish clay. I have never found anything in the clay layer even when I borrowed a friends ATX for a few weeks last summer. I even hunted and old turn of the century site where a big canning plant was. All the big chunks of lead were sitting on top of the clay layer same as if I hit them with 800, BH or Deus. Ok back on point.... The middle layer is my issue. The bounty hunter being low powered will find most things the others will in areas where the 2nd layer is only 1-3 inches. So I need a machine I can get through the 2nd layer all the way to the clay. With the black loomy rocky soil I get false signals all the time. I then dig and dig and nothing. The sandy loomy layer is the biggest problem. It seems no matter what machine I use I cant hit anyrhing in that layer. The electromagnetic properties are strange in that it soaks up the signal and the machine gets chattery. The only things I have found in this type is while it was still attatched to the top layer or just starting to sink into the loomy sandy soil. I bet alot of goodies have went into the layer and are waiting to be found. I just cant find anything that will hit in this stuff. The difference in depth from 1 foot to the next can change from 1/2 inch of the 2nd layer to 15 inches of the second layer. I know I am confusing everyone and I am sorry I just cant explain it any better. I am also going to order a 6in coil for the nox and see if that helps.

 

Beach 1&2 are not the same. [I am a salt beach hunter]  2 is WAY more stable. Try keeping your recovery speed at 6. At least in Salt and especially black sand it seems to keep it more stable. Confirm targets by going to "all metal".  But as you may know NOTHING is the same in poor soil or black sand conditions.  When in doubt, dig it, and check targets from more than one position. 

What are you doing with GB?

Dave

[bethanyb1201]

2 hours ago, midalake said:

 

Beach 1&2 are not the same. [I am a salt beach hunter]  2 is WAY more stable. Try keeping your recovery speed at 6. At least in Salt and especially black sand it seems to keep it more stable. Confirm targets by going to "all metal".  But as you may know NOTHING is the same in poor soil or black sand conditions.  When in doubt, dig it, and check targets from more than one position. 

What are you doing with GB?

Dave

I have the best  success doing an auto 

 

2 hours ago, midalake said:

 

Beach 1&2 are not the same. [I am a salt beach hunter]  2 is WAY more stable. Try keeping your recovery speed at 6. At least in Salt and especially black sand it seems to keep it more stable. Confirm targets by going to "all metal".  But as you may know NOTHING is the same in poor soil or black sand conditions.  When in doubt, dig it, and check targets from more than one position. 

What are you doing with GB?

Dave

I have the best luck in auto. I turn auto off if I have to really go over a target. The ground changes so much that in my mind I can notice a difference even if i cant.

[bethanyb1201]

On 3/25/2019 at 12:44 PM, steveg said:

Bethany,

There is not a lot I can offer, that Chase has not already said.

Two things that confuse me are, 1.  you say you are getting very good depth with a coin buried in your test garden, and 2.  you say you had good luck digging many silver coins with a Bounty Hunter 3300, but not with your Equinox.

These two things seem confusing.  While you may have "hot soil," and you sound pretty certain that you do, if you were digging silver coins in large numbers at 6" deep with your BH 3300, you should be easily able to equal that, at least, with your Equinox.  YES, it's a more sensitive detector, and thus can be more "noisy," but you should be able to run your sensitivity down to a lower level (mid teens), and still equal or exceed the depth capability of your 3300 -- while at the same time, reducing falsing/noise that you are receiving.  I would think that these "solid high tones" you are getting are chunks of iron -- and iron will, of course, often report as high tone several inches away (off to the side) from the actual location of the target.  I suspect that you are hearing nails, etc., that are probably 3-4 inches offset from where you are digging your holes, and that's my guess as to why you are "digging to China" and not finding the target -- it's off to the SIDE of the hole, not deeper down into the hole.  

I would suggest this -- take a silver coin (or your penny) along with you, to one of those sites where you are struggling with high tones that seem to be "ghost" or "phantom" tones.  Then, dig a hole IN THAT DIRT, and bury the coin about 8" deep.  I suspect you will be able to detect this coin.  If so, perhaps this will give you some confidence that even in these sites where you are getting high tones that you can't seem to locate when digging, you will still be able to hear a coin, if there's one there.

Also, I'm curious what you mean, when you say "repeatable" tones.  Do you mean "repeatable" when you swing left-to-right over a target?  OR, do you mean "repeatable" as you rotate your body 360 degrees around the target, sweeping the coil over the target from ALL angles, and listening to how the target reports/changes as you rotate around it?  One big "telltale" sign of iron, is a target that may "sound good" with left and right sweeps from ONE angle, but then the target's tone begins to sound degraded/poor (and often changes in location) when you turn your body 90 degrees and sweep over it.  If you are rotating all the way around the target, while sweeping the coil over it, and you are STILL getting solid, consistent high tones, then there may be something else going on.  But, I suspect that the soil issues you are mentioning are at least somewhat of a "red herring," right now, and that what you are mainly dealing with is ferrous trash, that is "falsing" -- giving you a high tone -- especially when running fairly high sensitivity...

Not sure if this helps any, but that's what I suspect you are dealing with.  If you are getting good depth in your test garden, and had no trouble digging silver with your Bounty Hunter, there is NO REASON that you can't accomplish the same with your Equinox (unless there is something wrong with the unit itself -- which I tend to doubt given the good results from your test garden).

Steve

I completely missed your response. My phone only lets me respond to the messages I get notification on. I logged out and seen your comment and logged into reply. My last few posts should have answered alot of your questions. I have sent in 2 soil probe samples each 10 inches by 3in diameter plugs that represent the most extreme soil in the deepest places I hunt. I should get back a detailed report on the effects of electromagnetic properties and other tests they dont normally run in my area. I am in non iron ,mineral rich farm land country. The old school I have hit the mother load at is only played out in the front. This area is only 6 in or so deep at max before it hit solid clay. The Dream spot is the old sports fields behind the school. They have deep 16in plus of loomy sandy rocky soil before clay. This and the local park which is also deep are two gold mines in waiting. Once a coin gets past the thick thatch layer I would bet it takes no longer than 5 years before the coin hits clay. This type of soil is light and airy and during the rainy season some of the sandy loomy soil becomes almost like liquid and items drop deep FAST. I have tried everything you have suggested and I should have included my background in my post so people didnt assume I was a newbie and waste time with basic info. For that I am sorry. I think I have the digging to china thing figured out. That happens in the area where the rocky sandy loomy soil starts to switch. So between the glass like rocks and the heavy minerals and the energy depleteing sand and loomy glacial soil spells ultimate disaster for a detector. It thinks something is there when its not. Once you get to the clay layer and break it up then you will lose the signal. I think it all has to do with how the soil is structured in layers and the layers maximize the negative effects of the minerals. Breaking that bond then cripples the lossy materials ability to soak in a signal and not return hardly anything. The computers dont know how to reqact to nothing coming back or to maybe a small percent of a part of the signal. Kinda like how a hollow spot in the ground will make the nox and most other top end detectors sound off. It also could be tue soil is high ph level so Iron could have disolved and once that hallo is broken with no trace of red due to black soil would make a vanishing signal. I will have an answer for everyone in 6-13 weeks lol... I also just found out when I seen the JULIE guy(call before you dig name in my state) that GPR doesnt work around here and code required all pipes cables or anything utilities related in town be either trenched and refilled with rock and sand or a small metal railroad type spike must be put in the ground every so often for the length of the line. I will figure it out!!!

[Chase Goldman]

7 hours ago, bethanyb1201 said:

I have the best  success doing an auto 

 

I have the best luck in auto. I turn auto off if I have to really go over a target. The ground changes so much that in my mind I can notice a difference even if i cant.

Do you mean tracking?  Auto is just manually pumping and letting the machine set the GB.  Tracking is the machine tracking mineralization and adjusting GB on the fly while you seing away.  If you are using GB tracking, that's good.  Just be sure to auto or manually set GB at the outset so tracking can start doing its thing with GB already "in the ballpark" otherwise GB will be way off unill it can catch up which can take awhile.