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Recovery Speed Comparision


midalake

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I use recovery speed to quiet the machine in the salt water....I run 4 most of the time. The less false signals I have to re trace the better.  In the water I was finding 6 to was a bit fast....filtering with to quick of a response.   I’m not working in a lot of junk....but trying to tame the minerals.  I don’t really swing the coil out there...I glide with the current.  Less effort and I don’t seem to miss as many near targets

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I am going to grab this opportunity to further explore Recovery while it is fresh and to nudge this thread a bit further hopefully. A couple of questions still dangle that came to mind while I was last in the field detecting and experimenting with recovery:

FYI,  before this particular post, I reread all of the Recovery-related links in Equinox Essentials and the cross-linked Treasure Talk authored by Steve along with all the responses on that site. Much more meaningful to me now that I have some literal skin in the game. The answers I seek may have been in this information, but I did not find them. I ask my remaining questions in an attempt to get a more nuanced understanding of Recovery without wandering into the weeds - too far. 

Does the Recovery speed adjustment set a fixed number of Tx and Rx cycles over a given period of time (something like the variable speed conveyor belt analogy Steve wrote elsewhere)? Or is the recovery cycle tied to target-dependency - suppressing sampling (cycling/responding) only once per target regardless of the recovery speed setting? 

Taking Steve's conveyor belt analogy a bit further, let's say that on that belt there were many different sized targets ranging from very tiny to very large. By running the belt at a fixed speed with a higher recovery cycle rate (6-8) does the operator give the machine a latent capacity to rapidly respond to the various target sizes only fully utilized when encountering targets in close proximity?  Or is the recovery cycle rate setting a fixed number of Tx/Rx recoveries over time, essentially forcing the machine to cycle more than once on a large target?

The reason I ask is when I recovered the biggest non-ferrous items pictured above e.g., the lead and beer can, I noted that I had only received a single dig me audio tone - just as with the smallest non-ferrous item. Size did not seem to matter to the machine in this regard.

I wonder if the machine is designed to self-limit recovery rate even at the highest settings until it processes a condition it identifies as the next target, or does it continue a forced recovery cycle rate but is designed to not introduce an identical and redundant response even while processing multiple samples within the same target?

My ears and eyes perceived a single response per target. I am wondering how Equinox pulls off this act of auditory mercy so I may better understand its language.

Thanks again Steve for all you have written on this subject. And to all those who have either authored posts or responded along the way. 

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I think what you are noticing is MODULATION (targets deep sound deep... shallow sound shallow).    Mine seems to size the target well .. .. in 50 tones especially... but, compared to say and Explorer.. which used GAIN (modulation) with the max being 10 this machine is about 10.   Headphones can make a difference..... piezos over speakers.... with piezos providing a bit better modulation.  Having little modulation..... meaning most targets have the same louder volume works extremely well especially in trashy sites where you might just miss a weak signal if you had a lot of modulation.  What i found was in 5 tones if i got say the 5 bin set at say 25....... beer cans and a quarter might sound very much the same and i couldnt tell size until i started digging.  

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4 hours ago, dewcon4414 said:

I think what you are noticing is MODULATION (targets deep sound deep... shallow sound shallow).

Thank you, dewcon4414,

I very much appreciate your response to my ill-conceived question. I am considering getting a set of piezo speaker headphones.

Truth is, my last post exposes some inaccurate notions I have about what I have read about Recovery and Equinox. I purchased two books specifically about Equinox and some of the material does not mesh (in my brain) with the information contained in Equinox Essentials links, etc. My resulting confusion is on full public display. Trying to keep on-topic is almost an art unto itself, especially when a confused rookie is trying to isolate a single operating feature that does not function in isolation. I apologize to the board for wandering off the rails. Sometimes silence is  an act of kindness. Thanks ALL. Time to go get a lot more swing time and way less book time.

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The "Recovery speed" feature of the Equinox detector consists of 2 parts (Ground filter + a certain filter refresh rate): this is determined by a predefined Ground Filter associated with a certain - Optimal Recovery Rate of the used Ground Filter - for a given "Recovery speed" "..
   

The ground filter of its used grade is responsible for the depth, but also for the mineralization work - while the higher ground filter stage filters out more ground mineralization.
The High Ground Filter is shallower, but it also feels less sensitive to side signals from the iron.
+ allows a faster response from the Ferous to Nonferous ..-
This, combined with the + high-speed recovery of the given Ground Filter, allows excellent separation in both the iron and the 11 "large coil.
.... It works as if the detector used a smaller coil....

Conversely (Low Ground Filter + Low Recovery Speed Groud Filter) = Low "Recovery Speed"Equinox ..setting ...allows you to reach a deeper depth - but at the cost of a lower detector speed but a weaker Separation ..

But the practical depth of such a low setting will also depend on the mineralization of the terrain.
 therefore, the lowest setting may not be the deepest.

Therefore, use "Recovery speed" 4-5-6 in Equinox ... at the beginning of "Universal" on different types of terrain.

Later you have the option to set it to lower or increase the "Recovery Speed" settings according to your own experience of detection on that terrain...

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El Nino77,

The EQ functionality you laid out immediately above has details not easy to locate. Would you please site your source(s)? I have combed Google, Minelab, DP, Treasure Talk, various blogs, and the ML manual, and cannot find papers with details such as yours that perhaps might be available to study at my own pace. I am not looking for intellectual property, or Trade Secrets, but documents with the operational depth of the type you kindly posted. If sources such as you access are confidential and proprietary, I'd appreciate if you would let me know so I don't waste my time in futility.

Thank you for the response and any study materials you are at liberty to throw my way.

flowdog

 

 

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The knowledge of how the "Recovery Speed" function works with Equinox .. I have gained the practice of using detection ... but also 2D and 3D separation tests and detector depth tests: Whites Spectra V3 and Rutus Argo v3: Separate Ground Filter Settings and Personal Recovery Rates.
Also put an effective sweeping speed of the coil .. into the equation and Size of coils..

However, these detector settings require some practice and knowledge, so detector manufacturers have combined these two functions -1. Ground filter.... and 2. Ground Filter Recovery rate -.. to the more simple In the "Single Recovery Speed Setting " .....for  detectors  XP Deus, ...Rutus Alter71, ...Whites MX Sport, and ...Minelab Equinox.. 

Even though I would not be hampered by the manufacturer's ability to use a combination of high ground filter.... and low-medium  refresh rate....   in Equinox, for example, as a than  new" 6+," "7+", "8 +" recovery speed  setting  that could have a better reach and ID.. for heavy mineralized terain... 

 

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On 4/19/2019 at 11:54 AM, Flowdog said:

 

Does the Recovery speed adjustment set a fixed number of Tx and Rx cycles over a given period of time (something like the variable speed conveyor belt analogy Steve wrote elsewhere)?

 This is probably pretty close. 

Remember, in the Equinox, all the analysis of a signal takes place in software. Naturally, this is Minelab's proprietary intellectual property, so we don't know exactly what they are doing. Being a retired SW engineer, I can venture a couple of guesses.

One thing they could do is spend more time, and obtain more VID accuracy when analyzing a signal when in a slow recovery mode. If you demand increased recovery speed, they might a) Spend less time in the function that analyzes the data, or b) analyze less than all 5 frequencies, or c)?

 

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I've learnt over the years to substantially slow down my swing speed even when utilising a faster recovery speed setting (in my specific being the Deus).  Even at a moderate swing speed you are still only getting a brief snapshot of what is passing under the coil, especially in junky or iron contaminated ground.  Some good sounding iron high toning may be prevalent on initial sweeps, though after some slower passes the detector almost re-corrects the high tone iron target to a low tone - same with some non-ferrous targets, they can clean up to a more accurate tone with a slower sweep speed or after multiple sweeps over the suspect target. 

Some of those difficult non-ferrous can be completely overlooked if combining fast sweep speeds and a fast recovery setting - you may only get part tone, or sometimes none at all.  I've proved it to myself on multiple occasions going over the same patches of ground picking out targets that were literally never heard on the first few passes. - not due to poor coverage or incorrect settings, simply due to not taking the time to slow things down to give the detector a chance to correctly identify or even pick up on the targets in the first place.

Either way you would think it would be logical to slow your sweep speed down if detecting difficult sites where faster recovery speeds are justified, whether it be with the Equinox or Deus, especially if set on the highest number of tones. 

Why put myself through the "torture" of say 99 tones and a high recovery speed in an area saturated by targets, it simply gives me a more comprehensive picture of what is happening under the coil at any given time, you either love it or hate it.  Hence once again why it can be advantageous to slow down and forensically sift through the various in-ground targets, and give the detector a chance to do its job. 

As Steve mentioned, I don't necessarily think there is any "set in stone" procedure for matching up swing speed with recovery speed, despite what some people may preach, do whatever works for you.  At the end of the day achieving some good finds is all that matters, and if slowing sweep speed combined with a higher recovery speed works for you (just as it did for me), then that is a good thing.

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On 4/19/2019 at 12:38 AM, Steve Herschbach said:

I am nearly always running recovery speed 5 or 6, with 7 occasionally and 4 rarely. I basically never use 1, 2, 3, or 8. Not saying there is anything wrong with those settings for other people and places. It’s just what works for me doing what I do. :smile:

The way I look at it is that it is good to have settings beyond those that you would actually use in practice so that you are never in a situation where just one more setting increment would get the job done but you are limited by the range of adjustment.

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