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The New Coils For The 23 And 7


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Rob, since you are a dealer, if you get the free time or happen to be talking to Minelab already for other issues, could you try to see if they'll release some official statement to my two questions in my post above? As you mention coils were a robust aftermarket business for dealers, and there is certainly a demand from customers, so it seems like it'd be good for all of us to know one way or another what the future (or current) plans are here. 

Steve, these X Coils are already released and available for purchase, unless I misunderstood the other thread?

Quote

The are becoming slowly available in Australia now. 

...

The price range is from $1300 to $1500 AUD

cheers dave

Either way, it's still time, IMO, that they let us know if they are going to release their own smaller coil or not by now too, independent of wether or not anyone else is developing aftermarket coils. If so, I'd simply wait for that one (assuming its not years away) and case closed for me.

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Nice to have you back Rob... your posts are always welcome!

If Minelab ever produces a small coil for the GPZ 7000 and a import/export function for XChange I will consider getting another GPZ. I expected both those items by now and Minelab failed to produce. We should not have to be relying on the aftermarket for coils and software hacks to get support on the most expensive consumer metal detector ever sold. The idea I have to cut the end off a $1500 coil cable to make another coil work is ludicrous to me.

Instead now all I have to do is hope for a 6 x 10 coil for my Equinox :smile:

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Hey Jasong,

    I have emailed my Rep, so I will let you know what Minelab has to say about those questions.  It's very possible they will not answer the questions, beyond anything done to the SDC or GPZ to accommodate aftermarket coils could or will void the factory warranty.  I will definitely let you know what I hear back and hopefully it's able to be posted on the public forums.  

 

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2 hours ago, Rob Allison said:

Hey Steve,

   I have to agree with you on your statement about the GPZ.  I doubt Minelab will promote any aftermarket coil on these units, which in a sense is unfortunate.  Many customers since the day the GPZ was introduced were hoping for a option of a few more coils, such as a smaller and larger.  They eventually introduced the 19" Super DD Searchcoil, but never anything any smaller. 

It's always been a debate of mine, as I have found such tiny gold with the GPZ using just the stock 14x13.  However, it's not the easiest sized coil to work tight areas, pinpoint in tight locations, or just be a coil that you run on bedrock all day to pick up small gold nuggets (dinks).  I personally think a smaller coil would have sold well on the GPZ, maybe something even as small as a 11" Round.  ........................

...................I do feel anyone that has a SDC 2300, these new coils will give you more performance and options on the SDC.  I have sold a good amount of them, mostly the larger ones as customers are looking to achieve more depth and coverage vs. the stock 8" round Mono.  I have done some testing to prove this is the case, the larger 11" Round and 14x9" do in fact get more depth, especially on larger gold Gram+ size.  I don't recommend anyone buying a larger coil for the SDC to get the same performance on small gold as the 8" Round.  

I think it has always been a old "rule of thumb" as you increase the coil size in length and width, you will loose some sensitivity to small gold, but start getting a bit more depth on larger gold and move coverage per swing.  

Just my ramblings .... 

Rob you’ve answered your own question in your post and most everyone else’s questions as well. There are VERY good reasons why ML have not gone down the path of more coils for the GPZ,  as a dealer the complaint of what a detector does coil wise is answered in the options of products made available.

If you WANT a smaller coil and better sensitivity in tight areas then use an SDC 2300, that is what they are designed for, conversely if your an SDC user looking for more depth then I as a dealer would  be encouraging the owner to look into the GPZ to cover off on their need for more depth. Both these units have been designed for a specific purpose. 

The SDC has what is known as ‘narrow band width’ timings, this means they are very good in extremely variable ground conditions with minimal noise, thanks to MPF they are also incredibly sensitive to fast time constant targets (tiny or prickly gold). Narrow Band width means they do not react to a lot of ground noise and salt signal that ‘wide band width’ units like the GPX and GPZ react to! Putting a larger coil on an SDC will increase depth to some degree but open up a whole lot of other issues that go against the original design, in effect fighting against the MPF concept and special tuning of the coil that was required for the SDC to work properly. The SDC was never designed to have coils swapped out so this also opens up a can of worms with regards to warranty etc. An SDC user who goes over some deep ground with a larger coil will still miss a lot of deeper gold that a GPZ will easily find, this comes back to the timings of the SDC and what it was purposely designed for. BTW yes I carry stocks of these coils, customers want what customers want, but I always inform our customers of the draw backs involved and I’m very reserved about installing a coil on an in-warranty unit.

In the case of aftermarket coils for the GPZ, I can see Minelab being very unhappy about connectors being cut off other coils to get past the security chip, in essence this is a direct hack against their IP so I’m not sure how this would go legally speaking, unless as Steve has said they are experimental and not offered as an aftermarket option. Minelab take a very dim view of counterfeit and other attacks on their IP. I suppose its a ‘watch this space’ on this subject awaiting further developments. 

Lastly Steve, IMHO the GPS functions in the GPZ are a carry over from the CTX. I do not even use the GPS function because to my mind it is a resource hog, I would rather my GPZ focus on the act of sensing metal not telling me where I am. If you look at any online GPS forum they are full of hacks on how to deal with data and mapping associated with GPS! Minelab make metal detectors and I feel they should just focus on improving them not worrying about a thing as complex as a GPS! I carry a GPS with me at all times for safety and can do a whole host of different things including interfacing neatly with a PC when I get back to camp. This is just my opinion and I understand everyone has a different viewpoint.

JP

 

 

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On 4/18/2019 at 8:59 AM, phoenix said:

Bearing in mind I am probably going to get these new coils for the 23 and 7 myself

Phoenix as a user has said where I stand also as a user, and I suspect from the number of aftermarket coils out there this is so for most users. I`ve got a 11" coiltek for the SDC and have a 15"X coil in the mail. Having to cut a coil lead to make a patch, sucks big time, having to partially dismantle to fit an aftermarket coil sucks as much ( although this is not relevant in my case, below photo illustrates this, "The SDC the user wants"), but as users we`ll do it. 

Thus it is good to see this "debate" involve dealers as well as users, it should ensure ML are listening because as a user tis about getting gold foremost what lengths a manufacturer goes to protect their intellectual "rights" means little to the user and the users market, we`ll go to the product that performs.IMG_20190421_142504.thumb.jpg.3b5928f8952ebff32252c08f02d5763e.jpg

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Norvic,

Will the Coiltek fit on that shaft without a conversion?

Mitchel

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2 hours ago, Jonathan Porter said:

Rob you’ve answered your own question in your post and most everyone else’s questions as well. There are VERY good reasons why ML have not gone down the path of more coils for the GPZ,  as a dealer the complaint of what a detector does coil wise is answered in the options of products made available.

If you WANT a smaller coil and better sensitivity in tight areas then use an SDC 2300, that is what they are designed for, conversely if your an SDC user looking for more depth then I as a dealer would  be encouraging the owner to look into the GPZ to cover off on their need for more depth. Both these units have been designed for a specific purpose. 

At a time when the trend is clearly towards having less detectors and one machine that does the job of a few detectors at once, that is a surprising statement to hear since I felt Minelab were actually the ones sort of pioneering this one detector fits all approach better than anyone else with the Equinox release. And I assumed the GPZ was the same way, one machine to combine performance of older PI's, SDC, and newer ZVT all in one package for those willing to pay for it. Grab one machine and go. Or at least it seemed that was the future promise.

Buying an SDC doesn't do anything to solve the weight issue with the existing ML coils either, which as we've seen with the X Coils is a problem which is possible to be addressed if desired. An SDC also doesn't have nearly the configurability with settings as the GPZ does so why would we want to give that up?

I mean, if Ford told people who just bought a new F250 that they couldn't put a offroad suspension or a supercharger in and had to buy a brand new Ford Raptor built for that purpose from the factory instead, yet couldn't tow a backhoe, couldn't take a yard of dirt in the bed, or carry a bunk of lumber, they would probably be laughed out of the truck market. No one wants two or more trucks when the one they have could work better than both combined and they already spent a song to get it.

Am I wrong or is there really a compelling reason that it's better for the customer to go buy a new SDC instead of a new coil that effectively makes their GPZ do the same task? If Minelab made the coil themselves the IP issue wouldn't exist either, especially if they made a better product, for cheaper and killed the competition through capitalism and not jurisprudence. I just don't see any actual reason buying an SDC would be a better choice, especially when ML could be making lighter 14x13's and 19's on top of it if they came out with a new line of coils.

I do see how it's better for Minelab though, especially if SDC sales are faltering. Am I off base? If so, why not just make a coil? I feel like there is some piece of the puzzle missing here...

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Yep that upper shaft that the guts of the "SDC" is mounted on, is a "Sandy Shaft", an aftermarket shaft that takes the standard lower coil shaft that most coils fit, but with closer tolerance thus no "sloppery" movement, fits the GPXs, GPs, SDs etc etc. and to answer your question MN, the new Coitek SDC coils. Allows to interchange coils as per normal. In time I`ll get back on my impressions of the Coilteks (SDC) and the X (Z) coils performance. Time sorts these things out.

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Hey JP,

  That for your knowledge on the detectors, as always it's great to hear what you have to say.  When you mentioned about myself and other dealers promoting other units, we then get into another issue - MONEY.   I'm sure everyone would love to own a SDC for backpacking, exploring and finding the small gold and then having a $8000 GPZ 7000 to punch down deep.  That being said, that investment is nearly $12,000 US. 

The majority of the prospectors out there have a limited budget, so maybe the GPX 5000 is the best overall investment for someone looking to chase all gold types and being able to use a handful of Minelab and aftermarket searchcoils (NF, Coiltek, Detech and more). 

 

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